I. v. a., to avoid, go out of
the way of, shun (rare but class.): “illos
fluctus,”
Plaut. Rud. 1, 2, 79;
cf.: “procellam
temporis,”
Cic. Verr. 1, 3, 8:
“malum,”
Ter. And. 3, 5, 5:
“letum,”
Lucr. 3, 1092:
“dolorem,”
Cic. Tusc. 2, 26:
“exiguum
censum
turpemque
repulsam,”
Hor. Ep. 1, 1, 44: “suspicionem,”
Suet. Tib. 11:
δυσφημίανid. Aug. 92:
“stultitiam,”
Vulg. Eccl. 2, 3.
nominis,
Ken Cukrowski Women in Ministry ACU
5.24.22 Sara.Barton.Pepperdine.The.Ministry.of.Preaching.html
Sara Barton: Teaches what I call a NEW homiletic. Homiltecs does not identify a Pastor-Preaching-Person who rules over the public teaching. Paul had to hear and see the risen Jesus and be appointed by Jesus as Preacher and Apostle. These are Eye-Witnesses. For we wee mortals a preaching is taking WHAT has once for all delivered to the saint
homiletic.” of or relating to homiletics also : preachymarked by obvious moralizing : didactic put off by the speaker's preachy tone " If I shall therefore go preachy so shah I lay and SHAME myself and God tliereto, and make them the more to despise God, and set the less by bim^ antl to be the more cruel unto his people
A Preacher is an EYE-Witness: in the first period Jesus had to let Paul SEE and HEAR his voice to make Him a WITNESS able to speak FOR God. Holy Scriptures is the Last Will and Testament of Jesus and is no Christian woulld be so profane as to claim themselves now THE authority and God is a liar. Women, sex and music is the mark of the original Babylon Mother of Harlots.
Schopenhauer, on this point, echoes Plato.
By means of massive irruptions, [overtones]
MUSIC takes up residence in our intimate self
and seemingly elects to make its home there.
The man inhabited and possessed by this intruder,
the man ROBBED of a self, is no longer himself:
he has become nothing more than a vibrating string, a sounding pipe.
He trembles madly under the bow or the fingers of the instrumentalist;
and just as APOLLON fills the Pythia’s lungs,
so the organ’s powerful voice
and the harp’s gentle accents take possession of the listener.
This process, at once IRRATIONAL and SHAMFUL, takes place on the margins of truth,
and thus borders more on magic than on empirical science.
Moral and Psychological effects of music:
A WOMAN who persuades solely by means of her presence and its perfumes,
The orgiastic element of its syncopated rhythm, entirely divorced from any more exalted musical content, produced a hyper-excitement of the nerves and loosened the powers of self-control. It gave rise to a false exhilaration, a fictitious endurance, an insatiability resulting in deleterious moral and physical reactions. Thus, when a human being reaches the age of reason,
he struggles against this unseemly and illegal seizure of his person,
not wanting to give in to enchantment,
that is, to go where the SONGS ARE LEADING
The magical induction becomes a seduction and thus trickery,
and an ADULT refuses to be captivated,
resisting the beliefs suggested to him by the auletic. [piper?]
that is, by the magical exhalations of her being,
the night that envelops us, MUSIC, which secures our allegiance
solely through the Charm engendered by a TRILL or an ARPEGGIO,
will therefore be the object of a deep suspicion.
-Jactant Th throw, cast, hurl, to scatter semen. To throw, toss about, make gestures, throw kisses, to be restless, rebellius, sow serpen's seed. “irrita sacrilega jactas incendia dextra,” id. M. 14, 539: “hastas,” Cic. de Or. 2, 78, 3 [cause controversy about questions]
Ovid, Meta 14.527
When the holy mother of the gods, recalling
how those same pines were felled on Ida's crest,
filled the wind with a sound of cymbals clashed
and TRILL of boxwood flutes. Borne through light air
by her famed lion yoke, she came and said,
“In vain you cast the fire with impious hand,
Turnus, for I will save this burning fleet.
I will not let the greedy flame consume
trees that were part and members of my grove.” God is WORD in the same sense that He is SPIRIT, LIFE, LOVE ETAL. Jesus said My WORDS are SPIRIT and LIFE. Therefore anone wo wants to sell their bodies to teach a NEW HERMENEUTIC is an ANTICHRIST.
This is outlawed by the Word, LOGOS or Regulative Principle:
Opposite Pathos A. that which happens to a person or thing, incident, accident,
where this incident took place, unfortunate accident, 2. what one has experienced, good or bad, experience
II. of the soul, emotion, passion
Opposite Poiein to excite passion, Arist.Rh.1418a12; V. Rhet., emotional style or treatment, to sphodron kai enthousiastikon p. Longin.8.1; “pathos poiein” Arist. Rh.1418a12; “
God is His WORD or Logos: Jesus made God as LOGOS both visible and audible. Logos actually OUTLAWS PREACH.
Logos computation, reckoning 2. statement of a theory, argument, ouk emeu alla tou l. akousantas prob. in Heraclit.50; logon ēde noēma amphis alētheiēs discourse and reflection on reality,
X. the Word or Wisdom of God, personified as his agent in creation and world-government,
Opposite to epithumia
A. desire, yearning, longing after a thing, desire of or for it, Theaomai :--gaze at, behold, mostly with a sense of wonder, 3. view as spectators
Opposite Enthousi-astikos , ē, on, A. inspired, “phusis” Pl.Ti.71e; esp. by music,
Prose, OPPOSITE -poiêsis, Id.R.390a;
OPPOSITE -poiêtikê, D.H.Comp.6; OPPOSITE poiêmata, onomatopoeic word
OPPOSITE emmetra Modus 2. The measure of tones, measure, rhythm, melody, harmony, time; in poetry, measure, metre, mode:Mūsĭcus a, um, adj., = mousikos.
John 8:38 I SPEAK that which I have seen with my Father:
and ye DO that which ye have seen with YOUR father.
SPEAK or READ is the only way to MARK yourself as a found-saved-and hidden from assult you are marked as gender-compromised and the SEED of the Serpent or the Devil. They are the MASSES who are Angels of Light or BLIGHT. They hate the Word and are therefore UNABLE to make merchandise of IT.
NOTE: THERE IS NOTHING MUSICAL IN THE DEVIL-DO SENSE UNTIL AFTER JOHN CALVIN PERMITTED SOME PSALMS-ONLY TO SET TO A FEW-NOTE MELODY AND SUNG IN UNISON. THOSE WHO TRIBULATE YOU ARE PROUD TO BE OUTED.
Devil Do: poiētai 4. after Hom., of Poets, compose, write, p. dithurambon, epea, Hdt.1.23, 4.14; “p. theogoniēn
Epos joined with muthos, 1. song or lay accompanied by music, 8.91,17.519.
2. fiction (opp. logos, historic truth), THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLEDevil Do: LATIN: făcĭo , to make in all senses, to do, perform, accomplish, prepare, produce, bring to pass, cause, effect, create, commit, perpetrate, form, fashion, operor Lying Wonder, “poëma,” to compose, id. Pis. 29, 70: “carmina,” Juv. 7, 28: “versus,” id. 7, 38: “sermonem,” Cic. Fam. 9, 8, 1; cf. “litteram,” id. Ac. 2, 2, 6: ludos, to celebrate, exhibit, admirationem alicujus rei alicui,” to excite [the Laded Burden],Hdt. 1.23 Periander, who disclosed the oracle's answer to Thrasybulus, was the son of Cypselus, and sovereign of Corinth. The Corinthians say (and the Lesbians agree) that the most marvellous thing [Lying Wonders] that happened to him in his life was the landing on Taenarus of Arion of Methymna, brought there by a dolphin. This Arion was a lyre-player second to none in that age; he was the first man whom we know to compose and name the dithyramb1 which he afterwards taught at Corinth.
1 The dithyramb was a kind of dance-music particularly associated with the cult of Dionysus.
Devil Do: carmen I.a tune, song; poem, verse; an oracular response, a prophecy; a form of incantation (cf.: cano, cantus, and canto). note, sound, both vocal and instrumental “also versus, numeri, modi): carmen tuba ista peregit ( = sonus),” Enn. Ann. 508 Vahl.: “carmine vocali clarus citharāque Philammon,” Ov. M. 11, 317; cf. “vocum,” id. ib. 12, 157: “per me (sc. Apollinem) concordant carmina nervisDevil Do: Commercium sermonis,” 7 In mercant. lang., to practise, exercise, follow any trade or profession: 8. In relig. lang., like the Gr. rhezein, to perform or celebrate a religious rite; to offer sacrifice, make an offering, to sacrifice:
“barbaricum,” id. M. 11, 163.—With allusion to playing on the cithara: The Moher o Harlots in John 17 “Carminibus Circe socios mutavit Ulixi,
Devil Do: Mousa II. mousa, as Appellat., music, song, “m. stugera” A.Eu.308 (anap.); “euphamos” Id.Supp.695
“Kanakhan .Clanging Brass
Theias as many as made them hope by divinations, Madness caused by Ritual
worship as divine, “Puthagoran [Of the Cosmos, the Ecumenical, Kingdom of the Devil."
Antiluron mousas” S.Tr.643 (lyr.); PLAYING THE LYRE
“Aiakō moisan pherein”I. bear or carry a load, A Laded Burden
Christ, the Rock, defined the Qahal, synagogue, ekklesia or Church in the wilderness. Genesis 49 cursed the tribe of Levi and warned not to attend their Qahal (synagogue) nor to enter into covenant with them. The only spiritual covenant made by God in Christ was to Abraham and the patriarch were commanded to bless the nations. God defined The Book of The Covenant at Mount sinai but the people violated it by rising up in musical idolatry. God abandoned the Levites to the worship of the starry host defined as the sacrificial system. They are the PATTERN for those who think that the assembly is a Religious Observation ordained to feed those always identified as PARASITES.
Jesus said that the Kingdom does not come with religious observations because the Kingdom is within and worship is in the PLACE of the sanctified spirit as it obeys the command ot PREACH the Word (Logos) by Reading it for comfort and doctrine.
Religious observations are Lying Wonders performed by those who tamper with or sell the Word and are sent strong delusions. Lying Wonders consist of rhetoric, singing, playing instruments, acting, programs or fleecing the lambs.
2Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren,
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,
2Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled,
neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Mŏvĕo , I. To move, stir, set in motion; to shake, disturb, remove,
A. Lit.: “movit et ad certos nescia membra modos,” “ut festis matrona moveri jussa diebus,” to dance, Hor. A. P. 232: by dancing (gesticulating), “et fila sonantia movit,” struck, Ov. M. 10, 89: “citharam cum voce,” id.“tympana,” id. H. 4, 48; to disturb: “novis Helicona cantibus,” Manil. Astron. 1, 4: “signum movere loco,” to move from the place,
Ov. Met. 10.89
Sumtime a boay beloved of the God that with a string
Dooth arme his bow, and with a string in tune his Violl bring.
For hallowed to the Nymphes that in the feeldes of Carthye were
There was a goodly myghty Stag whose homes such bredth did beare,
As that they shadowed all his head. His homes of gold did shyne,
And downe his brest hung from his necke, a cheyne with jewels fyne.
Amid his frunt with prettie strings a tablet beeing tyde,
Did waver as he went: and from his eares on eyther sydeMARK OF SATAN MOVING MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH OF CHRISTThe Gentiles often attended the REST day Reading Assembly or the synagogue. That is why they were wise unto salvation and needed only to be warned not to offend the Jews:
movit et ad certos nescia membra modos,”
1 Certus purpose driven, resolved, deliberate,
2 Nescĭus an unknown thing, a piece of ignorance unknowing, ignorant, unaware, not understanding, unable II. An epithet of all those objects whose existence or reality is fixed, determined (hence in connection with definitus, Quint. 7, 10, 7; “with praefinitus,” Suet. Galb. 14)
Revelation 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;3 Membrum includes: A Member Of the Church of Christ: “singuli autem alter alterius membra,” Vulg. Rom. 12, 5; cf. “the context: membra sumus corporis ejus,” i. e. Christ's, id. Eph. 5, 30.
Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries WERE all nations deceived.
4 Mŏdus , Musical Melody: you have to cut the word Limb from Limb to make melody
2. The measure of tones, measure, rhythm, melody, harmony, time; in poetry, measure, metre, mode: “vocum,” Cic. Div. 2, 3, 9: “musici,” Quint. 1, 10, 14: “lyrici,” Ov. H. 15, 6: “fidibus Latinis Thebanos aptare modos,” Hor. Ep. 1, 3, 12: Bacchico exsultas (i. e. exsultans) modo, Enn. ap. Charis. p. 214 P. (Trag. v. 152 Vahl.): “flebilibus modis concinere,” Cic. Tusc. 1, 44, 106: saltare ad tibicinis modos, to the music or sound of the flute, Liv. 7, 2: “nectere canoris Eloquium vocale modis,” Juv. 7, 19.—Fig.: “verae numerosque modosque ediscere vitae,” moral harmonies,
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every cityThe Israelites were made blind and deaf because they rejected The Book of The Covenant of grace. Moses said that they would not be able to read or hear until "another prophet like me" comes.
them that PREACH him, being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.
2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were blinded:IF YOU DENY THAT THE NAME OF THE "ANOTHER COMFORTER" SPIRIT IS NAMED JESUS CHRIST THE RIGHTEOUS you will likely think you can just INVENT your own songs and sermons like the Scribes and Pharisees: they did not want to obey the common to teach that which has been taught because they were godly enough to know that Christ commanded the FLEECEES not to pay for the free water of the Word.
for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away
in the READING of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Cor. 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is READ, the vail is upon their heart.
2Cor. 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Cor. 3:17 Now the Lord IS THAT SPIRIT and where the Spirit OF the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Cor. 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image from glory to glory,
even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Col. 4:16 And when this epistle is READ among you, cause that it be READ also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise READ the epistle from Laodicea.Why would Christ the Rock and Paul command that the Epistles be READ and give a Doctor of the Law the authority to preach ABOUT the letter or even deny it's value since THEIR interpretation is BOUGHT and SOLD as in Simony.
The only STAFF in the synagogue or early church was an elder who READ or made certain that the Scripture was READ without even the readers inflections which would be commentary and violate the LOGOS or Regulative Principle.
Paul wanted that elder to HAVE holy hands: this would guarantee that wrath or ORGY did not break out.
The women were to be silent and not TEACH OVER (self opinions) the group.
BECAUSE, the Driven Purpose was that "All be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth."
If you can grasp that the it is delusional to want to give women the ROLES for which there is no Gift from Christ nor is there any dole. APT elders as the pastor-teachers were commanded to EJECT the cunning craftsmen or SOPHISTS.
PAUL SILENCES THE DIVERSITY SO THERE CAN BE UNITY
Luke 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles,
and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
Paizo dance, play a game, 4. play on a musical instrument, h.Ap.206: c. acc., Pan ho kalamo phthongapaizôn [played on a reed] Ar.Ra.230 ; dance and sing, Pi. O.1.16.
5. play amorously, prosallêlous X.Smp.9.2
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children,Xen. Sym. 9.2 “Gentlemen, Ariadne will now enter the chamber set apart for her and Dionysus; after that, Dionysus, a little flushed with wine drunk at a banquet of the gods, will come to join her; and then they will disport themselves together.”herpeton II. creeping thing, reptile, esp. snake, kinad-os , eos, hence, cunning rogue, dog, catamite.
epi-triptos thērion, psōmo-kolax , a^kos, ho, A.flatterer for morsels of bread, parasite
2. hē nun e. kai kateaguia mousikē the disreputable and effeminate music of to-day, oulomenos
II. ruined, lost: hence, unhappy, wretched: pharmakon preachers, singers,
instrument players SORCERERS to be cast alive int the lake of fire.
thērion The Beast is a new style of music or drama including satyric dramas. THE MARK of the beast is to PLAY or mock Jesus
Serpo II. Trop., to creep, crawl; to extend gradually or imperceptibly; to spread abroad, increase, prevail (a favorite trope of Cic.): occulto
Of a low, grovelling poetic style: “(poëta) Serpit humi tutus,” crawls along the earth, Hor. A. P. 28 (cf.: “sermones Repentes per humum,”
“sapor,” Verg. G. 3, 397: b. Of persons, close, reserved, secret, not opendissembling his hate,
canam, qui leniter ... placidis per vada serpis aquis,” creepest, windest along,
occŭlo (obc- ) In partic., to cover up, hide, conceal
puncta argumentorum,” Cic. de Or. 2, 41, 77: “narratum ab iis,” to keep secret, conceal, Tac. A. 3, 16:
“occulta conjurationis retexere,” id. ib. 15, 74: “occulta cordis,” Vulg. 1 Cor. 14, 25:
Săpor , 1. Of style: “vernaculus,” i.e. taste, elegance, Cic. Brut. 46, 172; Arn. 3, p. 108: “Atticus,” Quint. 12, 10, 75; cf. id. 6, 4, 107: “sermo non publici saporis,” of uncommon elegance, Petr. 3, 1
tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine,
by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Panourgia (g3834) pan-oorg-ee'-ah; from 3835; adroitness, i.e. (in a bad sense) trickery or sophistry: - (cunning) craftiness, subtilty.Cunning craftiness has the same meaning as SOPHOS:
-Panourg-êma A. knavish trick, villainy, S.El.1387 (lyr.), LXX Si.1.6 (v.l.); sophistry, Gal.5.251; cf. panourgeuma.
1Cor. 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among youGender-focused churches are not related to the Apostolic teaching nor to the historic Church of Christ. To say that Scripture from Genesis to Revelation and the danger of Mother Goddess worship has always and has now NEUTERED many churches of Christ so that their performance preaching and music calls forth a lot of ridicule. They have to say that all of the Scriptures lie and simply did not understand OUR CULTURE. At the same time they twist the Scriptures to say that what Paul outlawed did not prevent what THEY want to impose. This normally happens after a senior preacher has usurped all authority, intimidated the elders, fired the vocational ministers and HIRED female ministers. Christ in Isaiah 3 defined this time perfectly where the women and BOYS or the effeminate (or worse) rule over you. Men have already violated the direct command to PREACH the Word by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine.
seemeth to be wise [sophos] in this world,
let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Cor. 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
For it is written,
He taketh the wise sophia
in their own craftiness. pa^nourg-ia
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.1Cor. 3:20 And again,
The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, sophōn
that they are vain. matai-os
-Sophia A. cleverness or skill in handicraft and art, as in carpentry, tektonos, hos rha te pasēs eu eidē s. Il.15.412; of the Telchines, Pi.O.7.53; hē entekhnos s., of Hephaestus and Athena, Pl.Prt.32 1d; of Daedalus and Palamedes, X.Mem.4.2.33, cf. 1.4.2; in music and singing, tekhnē kai s. h.Merc.483, cf. 511; in poetry, Sol.13.52, Pi.O.1.117
1Cor. 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you
seemeth to be wise [sophos] in this world,
let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Cor. 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
For it is written,
He taketh the wise sophia
in their own craftiness. pa^nourg-ia
1Cor. 3:20 And again,
The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, sophōn
that they are vain. matai-os
-WORSHIP ANDROGYNY THE PAGAN SEXUAL IDEAL PETER JONES
Gender Inclusive and Egalitarian Churches of Christ
Gal328 Gender Justice in Church of Christ
D'Esta Love Pepperdine Board of Directors for Gal328.org
-Mike Cope Women Worship Leaders
Doug Hurley Your Sons and Daughters shall Prophesy at ACU
See Ken Cukrowski Women in Ministry at ACU
See Ken Cukrowski claiming that the old and new testaments authorizes women prophets.
Jeff Walling Women in Ministry
Mike Cope Women Worship LeadersRuss Adcox Women in Ministry
Carroll D. Osburn Women and Change Agenda
Wiley Clarkson one of Ken Cukrowski's disciples
Jesus said that "doctors of the Law take away the key to knowledged." He defined them as Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. In the Ezekiel 33 example the Spirit OF Christ named "speakers, singers and instrument players." Because they were mercinary they had no intention of obeying the Word of God. That is why those who call all of the evidence about a few bad women and Paul just flat liars and WE know better, strong delusions means that God will not let them read BLACK text on BROWN paper (2 Corinthians 3). That is why massive "scholarly" work has been done to UPDATE Paul's evil teaching but totally missed the CORE of keeping men from engaging in wrath (orgy) and women from TEACHING when the command is to PREACH the Word by READING the Word for education and comfort. The CORE they do not intend to let happen is:
John Mark Hicks Women in the Assembly: Prophesying
Rubel Shelly Homosexuals and Women justice
1. Rubel Shelly Women in God's Service
2. Rubel Shelly: Women in God's Service: Jesus Life and Service
Al Maxey Miriam as Musical Worship Minister
1Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Si_gaō , means silent and not just VOCAL while being ORDERLY. Men have NO AUTHORITY to transmit to women to TEACH in the self-referenced or authentia authority form.keep silence, used by Hom. only in imper. siga, hush! be still! I 2. metaph. of things, “sigōn d' olethros kai mega phōnount' . . amathunei” A.Eu.935 (anap.); “surigges ou sigōsin” Id.Supp.181; “
The command SILENCES: phōn-eō , (phōnē) Anaxarch.1: abs., cry aloud, as in joy, S.Tr.202; of a singer, “aoidos . . aiola phōneōn” Theoc.16.44:—Pass., ta phōnēthenta sounds or words uttered, Pl.Sph. 262c, Ti.72a, cf. Longin.39.4.
4. of a musical instrument, sound, E.Or.146 (lyr.); of sounds, hēdu phōnein sound sweetly, Plu.2.1021b; but brontē ph. it has a voice, is significant, X.Ap.12.
The command SILENCES: surigx , iggos, hē, A.shepherd's pipe, Panspipe, “aulōn suriggōn t' enopē” Il.10.13; “nomēes terpomenoi surigxi” 18.526; “suriggōn enopē” h.Merc.512; “hupo ligurōn suriggōn hiesan audēn” Hes.Sc.278; “ou molpan suriggos ekhōn” S.Ph.213 (lyr.); kalaminē s. Ar.Fr.719; “kat' agrous tois nomeusi surigx an tis eiē” Pl.R.399d.Leaven Volume 13 Issue 1 1 Timothy Article 8 3-2-2012 Women and Wealth in 1 Timothy Ken Cukrowski kcukrowski@acu.edu
KEN CUKROWSKI: Without a doubt, 1 Tim 2:8-15 is one of the most challenging passages in the whole letter. However, a couple of things are clear.
Because I have jumped around looking as the loose collection of proof texts it will not make a lot of sense. Therefore, I feel the need to call attention to several facts which can so easily be missed by those seeking "credentials" for profession.
It is a fact that the PATTERN both inclusive and exclusive for the Qahal, synagogue or Church of Christ (the Rock) in the wilderness.
First: The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 50 defined Smiters and Pluckers most clearly the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. Jesus promised the same thing to anyone who would speak the Written Word of the Living Word.Jesus whom God made to be both Lord and Christ was served by women but He never ordained women to be exposed to the ABSOLUTE certainty of being abused even if it is "eye abuse" certain for any woman who would expose herself for special evaluation. In addition, He was certainly aware of the women's role in religion.
Second: The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 55 commanded us NOT to spend our money for the free water of the Word which He defines as Spirit.
Third: The clear pattern is that you have to shut down all of the self-pleasure and self-speak (Isaiah 58)
Fourth: God would send an INTERCESSOR to speak because there was NO MAN competent
Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man,
and wondered that there was no intercessor: [come between]
therefore his ARM brought salvation unto him; [yasha]
and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord;
My spirit that is upon thee,
and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed,
saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
"Its (pipe = to love passionately) was apparently a secular instrument and is never listed in the temple orchestra; only in Ps. 150:4 it is mentioned in a religious (but not ritual) function. Its ethos was not blameless at all, as we see from Genesis Rabbah 50:
'The angels said to Lot: 'There are players of the pipe (organ) in the country, hence it ought to be destroyed'." Its rabbinical identification with the aboda, the flute of the notorious Syrian bayaderes, emphasizes the erotic element which already the Hebrew name suggests." (Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, p. 460, Abingdon).
"Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal: these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." (Quasten)
BEFORE TRYING TO UNSCRAMBLE KEN CUKROWSKI:
THE ABSOLUTE PATTERN FOR THE EKKLESIA-SYNAGOGUE OR CHURCH OF CHRIST
FIRST: Scripture always EXCLUDES what people call worship: ceremonial legalism
1Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia,
that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies,
which minister questions, rather than godly edifying [educating] which is in faith: so do.
mu_th-ikos , ē, on, A. mythic, legendary, “m. tis humnos” Pl.Phdr.265c; “hoi m. khronoi” D.H.1.2; ta m. books of legends,NEXT: Scripture always EXCLUDES any form of Self-Speakers (Isaiah 58)
Plat. Phaedrus 265c plausible discourse, we chanted a sportive and mythic hymn in meet and pious strain to the honor of your lord and mine, Phaedrus, Love, the guardian of beautiful boys.
Prospaizō , sport, jest, “p. en logois” sing to the gods, sing in their praise or honour,
Fabula self-composed sermons, fiction, fictitious narrative, a tale, story (syn.: apologus, narratio):carminibus
dramatic poem, drama, play
Ludus a). In gen.: “hoc praetore ludos Apollini faciente, (Apollo, Abaddon)
Cantus I. the production of melodious sound, a musical utterance or expression, either with voice or instrument; hence, song, singing, playing, music (while carmen is prop. the contents or substance of the son
2. With instruments, a playing, music: “in nervorum vocumque cantibus
1Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart,
and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1Timothy 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1Timothy 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law;
understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
FINALLY: The ONLY pattern for the assembly in ekklesia or synagogue
1Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy,
according to the prophecies which went before on thee,
that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
1Timothy 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience;
TO PREVENT: in each of the PATTERNS for church Paul EXCLUDES certain people;
which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan,
that they may learn not to blaspheme.
CLICK Blaspheming is saying that God said or intended to say something CONTRADICTING what is written for our learning. Paul claims Christ as his authority. Jesus said that "doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge." He called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: In Ezekiel 33 He names speakers, singers and instrument players.
IN CHAPTER TWO PAUL REPEATS THE PATTERN WHERE WOMEN PREVENT SCHOOL OF CHRIST.
WHY IS THIS "PATTERN" BE PROTECTED AGAINST DOCTORS OF THE LAW WHO TAKE AWAY THE KEY TO KNOWLEDGE.
FIRST: IN ALL OF THE "PATTERNS" OF SCHOOL YOU MUST DEMAND SILENCE.
1Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all,
supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority;
that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
SECOND: ONLY THEN CAN THE ONE-PIECE "PATTERN" TAKE PLACE.
1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved,
and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
REFUTING THE CLAIMS OF WOMEN PROPHESIERS: [compare 1 Cor 14]
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the MAN Christ Jesus;
1Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all,
to be testified in due time.
AUTHORITY: Paul claims the authority of an apostle who witnessed and heard the risen Lord Who promised to guide him into all truth. Christ in Jeremiah says that it is blasphemy or despising the Word to say that Paul or Scripture lied.
1Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle,
(I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;)
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
1Timothy 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where,
lifting up holy hands, without WRATH and doubting.
Unholy, hand-waving MEN would produce the MYTHS or FABLES (songs and sermons) calculated to create wrath or ORGY which is MARKED by modern "charismatic" (that feminine thingy) preachers or the blasphemous term "musical worship teams able to bring you into the presence of God."
1Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel,
with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Timothy 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection
Women who "put on apparel" or clergy garb and expose themselves by musical performance defined as the ORGY are silenced because they DISABLE the spiritual or rational mind needed for EDUCATION ONLY on a true Church of Christ.
IF YOU DENY THAT CHRIST HAD A PATTERN FROM AFTER THE FALL INTO MUSICAL IDOLATRY AT MOUNT SINAI THEN AGREE WITH JESUS WHO SAID DOCTORS OF THE LAW TAKE AWAY THE KEY TO KNOWLEDGE.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
hath in every city
them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every sabbath [REST, never worship] dayIf you believe that Paul is an Apostle taught by Jesus Christ in His post-glorified Holy Spirit state there is absolutely nothing challenging about any of Paul's letters. Following the pattern first established by Christ (the Rock) for the Synagogue or church in the wilderness, Paul often follows that as did Jesus in His Synagogue ministry. First, one must exclude all of the vocal or instrumental rejoicing to make it possible to Rest, Read and Rehears the Word of God.
Genesis begins with lucifer (Zoe) being cast as profane into the garden of Eden. As incarnated by the king-queens of Babylon ahnd Trye she is called by the Spirit OF Christ the singing and harp playing prostitute.
Revelation ends with the prophecy of the Babylon mother of harlots (Revelation 17) using the lusted after fruits (same as in Amos) as speakers, singers and instrument players. John said that they HAD once deceived the whole world. Consistent with the almost total association between religious music and sorcery, John said that they will be cast alive into the lake of fire.
This may be too deep for any field of theology but disciples can see the stated facts which cannot be debated or discussed away. One does not have to believe the supernatural forces against which we are forced to wrestle, but it would be nice if such people did not mask and get waged under the banner of Christ.
KEN CUKROWSKI: First, the problems are specifically related to gender; the men have some specific problems, and the women have some specific problems. Second, the men's difficulties regard anger and quarreling, and the women's difficulties regard modesty.
The word orge means ORGY: orgies defines the pagan rituals common in all of the areas of Paul's writings. Tom Burgess in all of the PLUCKING proof texts lift passages speaking of older males plucking the harp trying to seduce a younger males. The Jews tried that on Jesus by PIPING trying to get him to lament and dance while being initiated into the gay brotherhood:
The tensions which led to the Jewish revolt were exacerbated when the Jewish high priest, a Hellenist himself, offered a sacrifice to Heracles (Hercules) who was a Greek symbol of homosexuality. Riley adds,'The Jewish temple itself became the scene of pagan sacrificial meals and sexual orgies [including homosexuality].' The final insult (for which Antiochus is identified in the Bible as the archtype of the antichrist)'was the installation in the temple of a pagan symbol, possibly a representation of Zeus [Baal], called by a sardonic pun 'the abomination of desolation'' (ibid.:16).
See Second Maccabees to see how Heracles fit into the Abomination of Desolation in the Jerusalem Temple. This was a devotion to music and homosexuality which drove most of the true Israelites out of the country.Slipping mentrual fluids into the holy places was believed to work MAGIC: moon blood. That was the meaning of the Agapae which Christians tried to defuse by having evangelists like Timothy work so that he could feed men on their way to work: that's called ministry.Greeks considered madness an important aspect of worship. Women in particular responded to Bacchus (also known as Dionysus), the god of madness; 'him of the orgiastic cry, exciter of women, Dionysus, glorified with mad honors'. (Plutarch, Moralia 671c) Ancient Corinth was a center of Dionysiac worship, and Pausinius, world traveler of the second century of our era gives this description:
But in my time it was devoted to the worship of Dionysus. This Dionysus they call Melpomenus (Minstrel), on the same principle as they call Apollo Musegetes (Leader of the Muses). Here there are images of Athena Paeonia (Healer), of Zeus, of Mnemosyne (Memory) and of the Muses, an Apollo, the votive offering and work of Eubulides, and Acratus, a daemon attendant upon Apollo; it is only a face of him worked into the wall.
In the market-place, for most of the temples are there, is the Ephesian Artemis, and there are two wooden statues of Dionysus, gilt except the faces, which are painted with red paint, one they call Lysian Dionysus and the other Dionysus the Reveler. The tradition about these statues I will record. Pentheus, they say, when he outraged dionysus, among other acts of reckless daring actually at last went to mount Cithaeron to spy on the women, and climbed up into a tree to see what they were doing; and when they detected him, they forthwith dragged him down, and tore him limb from limb. And afterwards, so they say at Corinth, the Pythian priestess told them to discover that tree and pay it divine honors. And that is why these statues are made of that very wood. (Description of Greece, II.ii; tr. A.R. Shilleto)
The musical idolatry modern theologians (not disciples) are trying to force peaceable Churches of Christ was UNIQUELY a female problemhttp://www.the-goldenrule.name/Orgy_MenstrualPeriod-Dionysius.htm
http://www.the-goldenrule.name/Orgy_Eucharist-Cannibal.htm
Orgi-a , iôn, ta,
A. secret rites, secret worship, practised by the initiated, a post-Hom. word ; used of the worship of Demeter at Eleusis, h.Cer.273,476. Ar.Ra.386, Th.948 ; of the rites of the Cabeiri and Demeter Achaia, Hdt.2.51,5.61; of Orpheus, Id.2.81; of Eumolpus, App.Anth.1.318 ; of Cybele, E.Ba.78 (lyr.): most freq. of the rites of Dionysus, Hdt.2.81, E.Ba.34, al., Theoc.26.13.
II. generally, rites, sacrifices, SIG57.4 (Milet., v B. C.), A.Th.179 (lyr.), S.Tr.765, Ant.1013 ; orgia Mousôn Ar.Ra.356
2. metaph., mysteries, without reference to religion, epistêmês Hp.Lex5 ; tois tês Aphroditês o. eilêmmenon Ar.Lys.832 , cf. Ach.Tat.4.1; ta Epikourou theophanta o. Metrod.38 .--The sg. orgion is rare, Jahresh.13Beibl.29 No.3 (Erythrae, iv B. C.), Luc.Syr.D.16, Orph.H.52.5. (Prob. cogn. with erdô, rhezô, cf. ergon, orgeôn.)
Mousa , ês, hê, Aeol. Moisa Sapph.84, IG42(1).130.16, etc.; Dor. Môsa Alcm. 1, etc.; Lacon. Môha (for Môsa) Ar.Lys.1298, cf. An. Ox.1.277:--Muse,
A. Olumpiades M., Dios aigiochoio thugateres Il.2.491 , cf. Hes.Th.25, etc.; nine in number, first in Od.24.60; named in Hes.Th.75 sqq.
II. mousa, as Appellat., music, song, m. stugera A.Eu.308 (anap.); euphamos Id.Supp.695 (lyr.); kanachan . . theias antiluron mousas S.Tr.643 (lyr.); Aiakôi moisan pherein Pi.N.3.28 ; tis hêde mousa; what strain is this ? E.Ion757; aluros m. Id.Ph.1028 (lyr.); dia mousas êixa Id.Alc.962 (lyr.): in Prose, aidein adokimon m. Pl.Lg. 829d : in pl., mousai Sphingos, of the Sphinx's riddle, E.Ph.50; esp. liberal arts, accomplishments, tas mousas aphanizôn Ar.Nu.972 ; apaideuton tôn peri tas numphikas m. Pl.Lg.775b : also in sg., tês alêthinês m. êmelêkenai Id.R.548b ; koinônein mousês ib.411c.
2. hautê hê Sôkratous m. that was Socrates's way, Gal.UP1.9.
But all educated men, and especially the musicians, are ministers of the Muses;
and both these and those who have to do with divination are ministers of Apollo;
and the initiated and torch-bearers and hierophants, of Demeter; and the Sileni and Satyri and Bacchae, and also the Lenae and Thyiae and Mimallones and Naïdes and Nymphae and the beings called Tityri, of Dionysus.
Ancient literature from Babylonian tablets and beyond agree with Johannes Quasten. In Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, beginning on page 41 He uses many of the church Fathers and Classical resources we also rely upon:
"Philodemus considered it paradoxical that music should be regarded as veneration of the gods while musicians were paid for performing this so-called veneration. Again, Philodemus held as self deceptive the view that music mediated religious ecstasy. He saw the entire condition induced by the noise of cymbals and tambourines as a disturbance of the spirit.
He found it significant that, on the whole, only women and effeminate men fell into this folly.
Accordingly, nothing of value could be attributed to music; it was no more than a slave of the sensation of pleasure, which satisfied much in the same way that food and drink did.
Similar opinions may be found in the writings of Philo. On one occasion he spoke of the Jewish "Feast of Fasting," used by the Greeks for the Day of Atonement:
"Now, many a man from the false religions, which are not ashamed of criticising what is noble, will ask: how can there be a feast without carousing and overeating, without the pleasant company of hosts and guests, without quantities of unmixed wine, without richly set tables and highly stacked provisions of everything that pertains to a banquet, without pageantry and jokes,
bantering and merry-making to the accompaniment of flutes and citharas, the sound of drums and cymbals and other effeminate and frivolous music of every king,
enkindling unbridled lusts with the help of the sense of hearing. For in and through the same [pleasures] those persons openly seek their joy, for what true joy is their they do not know.
Women's singing was a vital part of all pagan worship. In very early times women became priestly singers of the gods in the temple.
"Women and girls from the different ranks of society were proud to enter the service of the gods as singers and musicians. The understanding of this service was universal: these singers constituted the 'harem of the gods'." (End of Quasten)
Paul wants EVERYONE to be silent which does not do ekklesia or School of the Word
1Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all,
supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority;
that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Preaching out of one's head violates the direct command of the Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 58. Paul repeated that in Romans 15 which is one of the NEVER musical passages. If you do not reverence God then God is still a CONSUMING FIRE says Hebrews 12
KEN CUKROWSKI: In 1 Tim 2:8-15, Paul turns to internal problems that the church is facing. Although Paul addresses both males and females, by far the greater attention is on the females. Attending to both struetural and thematic features helps readers to understand this passage.
Structural Features
Perhaps here more than the other passages in 1 Timothy, it is important to recognize the structural features of this passage. First, Paul begins by connecting 1 Tim 2:8-15 to 2:1-7 by means of the hook word "pray."
The structure begins with verse 1 and continues to the end. The Purpose Driven Church of Christ is defined by Christ and the Campbells with being A School of Christ. It is important to silent those most likely being unrully so that:
1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved,Jesus is the ONLY mediator and the daughters of Eve then and now claimed to be mediators: Musical Worship teams say the blasphemers can lead you into the presence of God.
and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;
1Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all,
to be testified in due time.
A Church of Christ is built or educated by the Prophets and Apostles. Peter said that the prophets spoke by the Spirit OF Christ (1 Peter 1:11) and Jesus of Nazareth whom God made to be both Lord and Christ made the prophecies more certain. Peter denounced private interpretation or further expounding: this would spit in the face of the Apostles as Eye-- and Ear-- witnesses. Jesus as the glorified HOLY SPIRIT promised to appear to Paul to guide Him into all truth just as the other apostles. Paul speaks with the claim of an apostle. Therefore, to claim that Paul was a victime of culture is to reject Jesus as the Christ and only Son.
KEN CUKROWSKI: ANGRY MEN
The context of I Timothy points to some evident false teaching in Ephesus (1:3-7; 4: 1-4, 7; 6:3-5, 20- 21). Notice the following passages from I Timothy where we see some probable causes and evidence for the men's quarreling in 2:8:
No, he is not speaking of being ANGRY but AROUSED by women and wannabe musical performers. Jesus died to remove the laded burden (arousal songs) and burden laders. Paul outlawed self pleadure (Romans 15) so that the synagogue could function when we use ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH to teach that which is written for our learning..
They pay attention to myths and endless genealogies that promote useless speculations (1 :4).
Some, while going astray, turn away to fruitless discussion (l :6).
Avoid godless and silly myths (4:7).
THE ASSEMBLY TASK
1Tim. 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things,
thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ,
nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine,
whereunto thou hast attained.
THE PAGAN ANTITHESIS
1Tim. 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
MYTHS ARE:
Muth-ikos , ê, on, mythic, legendary, m. tis humnos Pl.Phdr.265c ; books of legends, title of treatise by Neanthes, Ath.13.572e.
Humnos , ho, hymn, ode, in praise of gods or heroes Perseus[265c] plausible discourse, we chanted a sportive and mythic hymn in meet and pious strain to the honor of your lord and mine, Phaedrus, Love, the guardian of beautiful boys.
Phaedrus
Yes, and I found it very pleasant to hear.Prospaizō ,2. abs., sport, jest, “p. en logois” Pl.Phdr.262d, cf. Lg. 653e, 804b; opp. spoudazein, Id.Euthd.283b.3. laugh at, make fun or sport of, tini Men.Epit.182, Plu.2.197d, Caes.63; satirize, tini D.L.4.61, 7.164:—Med., App. l.c.II. c. acc., theous p. sing to the gods, sing in their praise or honour, Pl.Epin.980b: c. dupl. acc., humnon prosepaisamen . . ton . . Erōta sang a hymn in praise of Eros, Id.Phdr.265c.2. banter, “tous rhētoras” Id.Mx.235c, cf. Euthd.285a; p. ton kuna, ton arkton, tantalize, Luc.Dom.24, Ael.NA4.45.
LATIN DEFINITIONS:
dē-vīto , āvi, ātum, 1,
Anilis
I. of or pertaining to an old woman.
II. Often in a contemptuous sense, like an old woman, old womanish, anile: “ineptiae paene aniles,” Cic. Tusc. 1, 39, 93: “superstitio imbecilli animi atque anilis,” id. Div. 2, 60; so id. N. D. 2, 28; 3, 5; * Hor. S. 2, 6, 77; Quint. 1, 8, 19.—Comp. and sup. not used.—* Adv.: ănīlĭter , like an old woman: “dicere aliquid,” Cic. N. D. 3, 39.
Fabula self-composed sermons, fiction,
II. in partic. (freq. and class.), a fictitious narrative, a tale, story (syn.: apologus, narratio): narrationum tris accepimus species, fabulam, quae versatur in tragoediis atque carminibus non a veritate modo, sed etiam a forma veritatis remota, argumentum ... historiam, So of idle tales: “ineptas et aniles fabulas devita,” Vulg. 1 Tim. 4, 7 al.—B Of particular kinds of poetry.1. Most freq., a dramatic poem, drama, play (syn.: “ludus, cantus, actio, etc.): in full, fabula scaenica,” Amm. 28, 1, 4; “or, theatralis,” id. 14, 6, 20: “fabula ad actum scenarum composita,” Quint. 5, 10, 9;
Ludus a). In gen.: “hoc praetore ludos Apollini faciente, (Apollo, Abaddon)
Cantus I. the production of melodious sound, a musical utterance or expression, either with voice or instrument; hence, song, singing, playing, music (while carmen is prop. the contents or substance of the son
2. With instruments, a playing, music: “in nervorum vocumque cantibus,
A. Prophetic or oracular song: “veridicos Parcae coeperunt edere cantus,” Cat. 64, 306; cf. Tib. 1, 8, 4.—B. An incantation, charm, magic song, etc.: cantusque artesque magorum.
KEN CUKROWSKI: He is sick with a morbid craving for debates and disputes about words, from which come envy, strife, slanders, evil suspicions, wranglings of people who have corrupt minds and lack the truth, thinking that godliness is a means of gain (6:4-5). '
Again: The context of I Timothy points to some evident false teaching in Ephesus (1:3-7; 4: 1-4, 7; 6:3-5, 20- 21)
THIS MARKS A PERSON WHO DISPUTES WITH GOD ON ALL ISSUES:
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words,
even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing,
but doting about questions and strifes of words,
whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds,
and destitute of the truth,
supposing that gain is godliness:
from such withdraw thyself.
G868 aphistïmi af-is'-tay-mee From G575 and G2476 ; to remove, that is, (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.
-conflictātĭo , I. a striking together, a collision, conflict, struggle: exercituum duorum,
Gell 15, 18, 3; “for a place in the theatre,” Quint. 3, 8, 29
B. Of verbal strife, a dispute: “hominum,” Vulg. 1 Tim. 6, 5.—
-por-ismos A. providing, procuring, “tōn epitēdeiōn” Plb. 3.112.2; earning a living,KEN CUKROWSKI: Avoid the godless, empty chatter and the contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge (6:20).
money-getting, Ep.Ti.6.6; means of livelihood,
-quaestus gaining, acquiring; gain, acquisition, profit, advantage, o bring gain, be turned to profit,
he could spend all the tithes offered to Hercules, every one looks to his own interest,
“Of a prostitute (freq. and class.): corpore indignum quaestum facere
Of a parasite: “antiquom quaestum meum alimoniae servo,” Plaut. Pers. 1, 2, 1. —
2 Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
2 Cor 2:17 For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ.
-ka^pēl-euō , to be a retail-dealer, drive a petty trade, Hdt.1.155, 2.35, Isoc.2.1
(often with a further meaning of ‘cheating’) k. tēs hōras anthos or tēn hōran, of prostitutes,1Timothy 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. KEN CUKROWSKI:-Adultero , II. Fig., to falsify, adulterate, or give a foreign nature to a thing, to counterfeitHdt.1.155 Heredotus: Cyrus told how to take the FIGHT out of the enemy: [4] But pardon the Lydians, and give them this command so that they not revolt or pose a danger to you: send and forbid them to possess weapons of war,
and order them to wear tunics under their cloaks
and knee-boots on their feet,
and to teach their sons lyre-playing [kitharizein]
and song [psallein] and dance
and shop-keeping [huckstering].
And quickly, O king,
you shall see them become women instead of men,
so that you need not fear them, that they might revolt."
adulterantes verbum, Vulg. 2 Cor. 2, 17 .--
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust,
avoiding profane and vain babblings,
and oppositions of science [gnosis] falsely so called:Bebelos (g952) beb'-ay-los; from the base of 939 and belos, (a threshold); accessible (as by crossing the door-way), i.e. (by impl. of Jewish notions) heathenish, wicked: - profane (person)But shun profane and vain babblings (speaking in tongues: empty and artificial sound): for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2 Timothy 2:16 (This was part of Gnosticism)"The priest stands on the threshold (of the temple) and awakens the god calling to him in the Egyptian language." This is how Arnobius mocks the ritual of Isis: 'Why these revels you sing each morning to awaken him, accompanying your songs on the flute? Do the gods go to sleep, then, that they need to be awakened?' At Delphi the Thyads went to waken the young Dionysus, just as at Rhodes Bacchus woke gently from his sleep to the sound of the hydraulic organ." (de Vaux, Roland p. 246).
"The most probable answer seem to be that the chiming of the holy bells was thought to drive far off the envious and wicked spirits who lurked about the door of the sanctuary, ready to pounce on and carry off the richly apparelled minister as he stepped across the threshold in the discharge of his sacred office. At least this view, which has found favour with some modern scholars, is strongly supported by analogy; for it has been a common opinion, from the days of antiquity downwards, that demons and ghosts can be put to flight by the sound of metal, whether it be the musical jingle of little bells, the deep-mouthed clangour of great bells, the shrill clash of cymbals, the booming of gongs, or the simple clink and clank of plates of bronze or iron knocked together or struck with hammer or sticks. Hence, in rites of exorcism it has often been customary for the celebrant either to ring a bell which he holds in his hand, or wear attached to some part of his person a whole nest of bells, which jingle at every movement he makes." (Frazer, James George, Folk-Lore in the Old Testament, p. 417-8, Macmillian, 1923)1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
Baskaino (g940) bas-kah'ee-no; akin to 5335; to malign, i.e. (by extens.) to fascinate (by false representations): - bewitch.
KEN CUKROWSKI: The problem in 1 Tim 2:8 is that these arguments are now occurring in the context of prayer! Men seem to be attacking others with their prayers of all things! In contrast, Paul tells the men that the hands they lift in prayer should be holy hands. Unfortunately, even the best things, such as prayer, can be co-opted by sinful individuals. Even though angry, quarreling prayers such as these may be rare today, prayer is still sometimes used to preach personal, theological, and political positions. There are prayers to which one cannot, in good conscience, say "Amen."
Sorry, but there is no logical flow in this bit of theology. What Paul is warning against is SELF Speak beyond that which is written and using MEN: Men as oppoosed to WOMEN as the only way to prevent an outbreak of ORGY. An orgy would be singing, clapping, playing instruments or gyrating. The WORD demands SPEAK and only older, masculine males can PREVENT the musical ORGY promoted by ACU.
1Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle,
(I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;)
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
1Timothy 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where,
lifting up holy hands, without WRATH and doubting.
Anēr man, opp. woman man, opp. youth, unless the context determines the meaning, as
IV. man emphatically, man indeed,
org-aō I. to be getting ready to bear, growing ripe for something, of soil, Thphr.CP3.2.6 ; o
II of men, like sphrigaō, swell with lust, wax wanton, be rampant, Ar.Lys.1113, Av. 462 (where the Sch. explains it epithumētikōs ekhō) ; “ho ep' aphrodisiois mainomenos . . orgōn”
Aphrodis-ios , a, on, also os, on D.H.2.24, Luc.Am.12, Ael.NA1.2:—
II. Aphrodisia, ta, sexual pleasures, Hp.Mochl.36, freq. in Pl., as Phd.81b, al.; “terpn' anthe' A.” Pi.N.7.53; “ta tōn hōraiōn
2. festival of Aphrodite, “A. agein” Id.HG5.4.4,
ala^l-azō , formed from the cry alalai): —raise the war-cry, tō Enualiō ēlalaxan (as v.l. for ēlelixan) X.An.5.2.14, cf.6.5.27; Med., Arr.l.c.: c.acc. cogn., nikēn alalazeinshout the shout of victory, S.Ant.133.1Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel,
2. generally, cry, shout aloud, Pi.l.c., E.El.855; esp. in orgiastic rites, A.Fr.57; of Bacchus and Bacchae, E.Ba.593 (in Med.), 1133, etc.; “ōloluxan hai gunaikes, ēlalaxan de hoi andres”
*II. [select] rarely also of other sounds than the voice,sound loudly, “psalmos d' alalazei” A.Fr.57; “kumbalon alalazon” 1 Ep.Cor.13.1
Dialog-ismos , ho, II. calculation, consideration, III.debate, argument, discussion,
Philippians 2 [14] Do all things without murmurings and disputes, [15] that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you are seen as lights in the world,
[16] holding up the word of life; that I may have something to boast in the day of Christ,
that I didn't run in vain nor labor in vain
James [4] haven't you shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? [5] Listen, my beloved brothers. Didn't God choose those who are poor in this world to be rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he promised to those who love him? [6] But you have dishonored the poor man.
with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Timothy 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection
This utterly silences the women in a non-sedentary role which automatically projects "authentia" or sexual authority which is also murderous. If women are quite the OUTBREAK even in frontier awakenings--like Iraq devil worship--would not break out.
"One of the greatest of all Greek dramas, The Bacchae powerfully dramatizes theJesus Christ is our only Teacher when the elders as pastor-teachers "teach that which has been taught." It is just common decency that everyone sit down and shut up and listen. It is recored that a certain class of women could neither sit down or remain silent. It is clear that most males do not LUST to get power to stand up and speak up. Someone has said that if you stop women from speaking in tongues then no one will speak in tongues.
conflict between the emotional and rational sides of the human psyche.
When the people of Thebes deny the existence of the god Dionysos, he punishes them
by unleashing the full force of female sexuality,
thereby destroying social order and driving them to certain tragedy.
"It is symptomatic of structures that have lost their elasticity, becoming too rigid to accommodate further development, to intensify the semantics of self-reference as a sort of final act of self-reassurance.
The patterns of self-reference by drama to drama as we see them in The Bacchae of Euripides reflect a crisis in the very genre of tragedy,
in the context of drastic changes in Athenian society toward the end of the fifth century; the prospect is one of abrupt confrontation and loss." -- Nagy, Pindar's Homer p. 388
Anyone who understands the meaning of GOD would not teach theology and would understand the meaning of SILENCE.
Lu.9:36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
Ac.15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Ac.15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Ac.21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Paul has claimed the authority of an Apostle whom Jesus as Holy Spirit appeared to and spoke to to make him qualified. If you do not believe what Paull has to say and which has been the historical understanding by men who love women then you blaspheme the Spirit OF Christ who defined the future ekklesia both inclusively and exclusively.
Remember that only Christ Jesus is the mediator.
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;
1Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all,
to be testified in due time.To make that possible and to outlaw the Eve's or Mediatrix Paul issued an absolute command:Women uncovered prophesiers (1 Corinthians 11) thought that they were MEDIATORS. Paul told them if they needed to know anything he would write them a letter. That is why Paul silenced the women in Corinth ABSOLUTELY to prevent the female musical prophesiers from slipping in..
1Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach,
nor to usurp authority over the man [even with a tune], but to be in silence.
1Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived,
but the woman being deceived [wholly seduced] was in the transgression.
1Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing,
if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Eve is mentioned only twice in the New Testament and because Jesus spoke in parables to HIDE the truth from the WISE (sophists=rhetoricians, singers, musicians, actors). Moses was writing an INVERTED version of Babylon Myths AFTER the nation fell from grace BECAUSE of instrumental idolatry at Mount Sinai. Therefore, those who mock Paul do not understand that Paul knew all about Eve and scholars know nothing. While not necessarily true, Paul understood that women especially looked to EVE (Zoe, Mary) as THEIR Mediatrix.The serpents, however, of the magicians-(that is,) the gods of destruction-withstood the power of Moses in Egypt, but the rod of Moses reduced them all to subjection and slew them. This universal serpent is, he says, the wise discourse of Eve. This, he says, is the mystery of Edem, this the river of Edem;this the mark that was set upon Cain, [from a musical note]Theophilus to Autolycus
that any one who findeth him might not kill him. This, he says, is Cain, [Gen. iv. 15] whose sacrifice [Gen. iv. 5. ] the god of this world did not accept.
This Eve, on account of her having been in the beginning deceived by the serpent, and become the author of sin, the wicked demon, who also is called Satan, who then spoke to her through the serpent, and who works even to this day in those men that are possessed by him, invokes as Eve. And he is called "demon" and "dragon," on account of his revolting from God. For at first he was an angel. And concerning his history there is a great deal to be said; wherefore I at present omit the relation of it, for I have also given an account of him in another place.
Referring to the bacchanalian ORGIES [wrath] in which " Eva " was shouted, and which the Fathers professed to believe was an unintentional invocation of Eve, the authoress of all sin.
The word "abomination" is also key to understanding the context. In Hebrew, the word "to 'evah," (abomination) is almost invariably linked to idolatry. In the passages from which both verses are taken, God tells Moses to tell the people not to follow the idolatrous practices of the people around them, people who sacrificed their children to Molech, or who masturbated into the fire to offer their semen to Molech, for example. Chapter 20 starts off with the same warning.
"To 'evah" also means "something which is ritually unclean."
Hippolytus Book V - The Refutation of All Heresies - Satan WorshipThey rashly assume in this manner, that whatsoever things have been said and done by all men, (may be made to harmonize) with their own particular mental view, alleging that ALL things become spiritual. Whence likewise they assert, that those exhibiting themselves in theatres,not even these say or do anything without premeditation.
Therefore, he says, when, on the people assembling in the theatres, any one enters clad in a remarkable robe, carrying a harp and playing a tune (upon it, accompanying it) with a song of the great mysteries, he speaks as follows, not knowing what he says:
"Whether (thou art) the race of Saturn (Satans) or happy Jupiter, or mighty Rhea (ZOE, Eve), Hail, Attis, gloomy mutilation of Rhea. Assyrians style thee thrice-longed-for Adonis, and the whole of Egypt (calls thee) Osiris, celestial horn of the moon; [The bull, Apis, at Sinai] Greeks denominate (thee) Wisdom; Samothracians, venerable Adam; Haemonians, Corybas; and them Phrygians (name thee) at one time Papa, at another time Corpse, or God, or Fruitless, or Aipolos, or green Ear of Corn that has been reaped, or whom the very fertile Amygdalus produced-a man, a musician."
This, he says, is multiform Attis, whom while they celebrate in a hymn, they utter these words:
On account of these and such like reasons, these constantly attend the mysteries called those of the "Great Mother,"supposing especially that they behold by means of the ceremonies performed there the entire mystery. [Moved into the presence of the gods with music]"I will hymn Attis, son of Rhea, not with the buzzing sounds of trumpets, or of Idaean pipers, which accord with (the voices of) the Curetes; but I will mingle (my song) with Apollo's music of harps, evoe, evan, ' inasmuch as thou art Pan, as thou art Bacchus, as thou art shepherd of brilliant stars."
For these have nothing more than the ceremonies that are performed there, except that they are not emasculated:they merely complete the work of the emasculated.
For with the utmost severity and vigilance they enjoin (on their votaries) to abstain, as if they were emasculated, from intercourse with a woman. The rest, however, of the proceeding (observed in these mysteries), as we have declared at some length, (they follow) just as (if they were) emasculated persons. And they do not worship any other object but Naas, (from thence) being styled Naasseni.
But Naas is the serpent from whom, i.e., from the word Naas, (the Naassene) says, are all that under heaven are denominated temples (Naos). And (he states) that to him alone-that is, Naas-is dedicated every shrine and every initiatory rite, and every mystery; and, in general, that a religious ceremony could not be discovered under heaven, in which a temple (Naos) has no existence; and in the temple itself is Naas, from whom it has received its denomination of temple (Naos)
KEN CUKROWSKI: Paul, however, moves in a different direction from the focus on praying for outsiders (2: 1-7). Here in 2:8, Paul stresses how Christians should pray, namely "without anger and quarreling."
The next two structural features provide both a larger and smaller frame for reading 2:9-15. The larger bracket includes the prepositional phrase "with modesty and moderation" in 2:8 and a shortened version of the phrase in 2: 15 (namely, "with moderation"). In fact, the final two words of the whole passage are the phrase "with moderation." Within 2:9-15, Paul includes another pair of prepositional phrases. This time, the same phrase (namely, "with quietness") begins and ends 2:11-12.
SOPHIA-EVE-MARY MOTHER AND TEACHER OF GOD: From Sophia from The Book of Wonders by David Jors, 16th century. Goddesses and Today's Culture. Note pomegranite.
"To revive gods and goddesses is no small task. Above all, it is not a task that reason or personal motives can accomplish or even assist in. One cannot construct archetypes on the basis of recognitions reached by the personal complex of mind and emotions. David L. Miller rightly observes:
"The Gods and Goddesses are not cute allegories and analogies, figures of speech for evangelizing and moralistic orators, just as they are neither psychological nor social roles. Rather, they are worlds of our existence; the deepest structures of reality. If we conjure up the presence of such structures of reality primarily or even partly because we would like to advance our own purposes, we commit sacrilege and invite the cruel retribution of the Olympians. Our watchword in these matters must never be "I want," but rather "do as Thou wilt." Ideologies, politics, "isms" of all kinds, as well as personal hurt and anger, must be left behind in the outer court. They must not be smuggled into the sanctuary where the deities reside. Of course, much of the contemporary "paganizing" and "Goddess talk" will not pass muster by these stringent yet essential standards.
"The discovery and assimilation of early heterodox Christian scriptures (such as the Nag Hammadi library) will also facilitate the revival of goddess figures within a new Gnostic Christian mythos. Goddesses such as Barbelo and Sophia, demigoddesses like Eve-Zoe and Norea, and heroines such as Mary Magdalene are emerging from exile and are awaiting reincorporation into Christian scriptures and liturgy. Things have never looked so good for a recovery of our polytheistic heritage and of our beautiful and mighty goddesses of old. One even feels that Christ, the incarnate paradigm of the Fullness, who assured us that in his Father's house there are many divinities [John 10:43.] would be pleased by the coming of a new polytheism.KEN CUKROWSKI: Finally, it is worthwhile to recognize the two connections between 2:8 and 9. The word likewise links the two verses. In addition, the phrase "I desire that" in 2:8 governs 2:9; that is, I Tim 2:9 is translated CI desire that) the women adorn themselves ....
Key Themes and Terms
One of the difficulties of this passage is the translation of key words and ideas. For example, how should one translate the phrase in quietness in 2: 11 and 12? The adjective (hesuchios) is translated as quiet or wellordered in 2:2. Translators recognize that in calling Christians to pray and "lead a calm and quiet (hesuchioss life,"
Habakkuk 2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it;
the molten image, and a teacher of lies,
that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?
Habakkuk 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach!
Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
Habakkuk 2:20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.
We even have a mention at a later date of a similar custom in connection with the cult in Jerusalem, where certain Levites, called me'oreim, 'arousers," sang every morning this verse from Ps 44: 'Awake, Lord, awake! Do not abandon us for ever." The Talmud tells us that Johy Hyrcanus suppressed the practice because it recalled too readily a pagan custom.A similar practice is attested in connection with the cult of Herakles-Melkart. According to Menander, as he is quoted by Josephus, the king Hiram, who was a contemporary of Solomon, rebuilt the temples of Tyre and, 'he was the first to celebrate the awakening of Heracles in the month of Peritius." (de Vaux, p. 247)
In an inscription from Cyprus, in one from Rhodes and in several from around the district of Carthage, there are references to important personages who bear the title Mqm"lm which we can translate as 'arouser of the god." (de Vaux, p. 247).
Paul warned about LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS which are CARNAL WEAPONS. You cannot defeat the principalities and powers in heavenly places [getting LIFTED UP with music] by using the INSTRUMENTS which came with Lucifer to be used AGAINST God's Word or SWORD of the spirit whichWE must use.
Euripides-Ion
- O thou, that wakest on thy seven-string'd lyre
- Sweet notes, that from the rustic lifeless horn
- Enchant the ear with heavenly melody,
- Son of Latona, thee before this light
- Will I reprove. Thou camest to me, with gold
- Thy locks all glittering, as the vermeil flowers
- And now my son and thine, ill-fated babe,
- Is rent by ravenous vultures; thou, meanwhile,
- Art to thy lyre attuning strains of joy.
hēsu^kh-ia , A. [select] rest, quiet, Od.18.22, etc.; personifiedhē. tēs poliorkiēs rest from . . , Hdt.6.135;
to keep it quiet, not speak of it,
hēdonē , A. enjoyment, pleasure, prop. of sensual pleasures,
3. Pl., desires after pleasure, pleasant lusts, X.Mem.1.2.23, Ep.Tit.3.3, al.
a. hēsukhian agein keep quiet, be at peace or at rest,
; kinēseōn from movements, Pl.Ti.89e; keep silent, Hdt.5.92, E.Andr.143 (lyr.
sĭlentĭum A. In gen., a being still or silent, noiselessness, stillness, silence
“ut nulla fere pars orationis silentio praeteriretur,” in silence, without applause,
id. Brut. 22, 88; “more freq.: praeterire silentio,” to pass over in silence, to say nothing about, i
The Word (only) of Christ (only) was commanded to be PREACHED by being READ. Paul commands that the women NOT discuss or debate that word. A female preacher would be insulting Christ by thinking that she had a jot or tittle to add. She had plenty of time to disculss the weekly memorized text with her husband at home. The questioning was uniquely a problem.
Isaiah 47:5 Sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans:
for thou shalt no more be called, The lady of kingdoms.
Jeremiah 8:14 Why do we sit still? assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD.
Zechariah 2:13 Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.
KEN CUKROWSKI: Paul is not telling Christians they cannot speak! Yet, when the corresponding noun (heslIchia) is used in 2:11 and 12, some translations have "in silence," which is a possible translation if women's speaking at all is the issue. However, if how the women are speaking is part of the issue, than a better translation is "with quiet behavior" or "with respect."
Speaking in gibberish was uniquely a women oracle's practice. Only they are commanded to STOP doing something uniquely female:
1Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,
and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
This is not speaking as in the command to SPEAK one to another to teach and comfort. Sounding brass and tinkling cymbals here are identifying marks of people who have NO LOVE. Even if they COULD speak all of the languages in the world there would be no love. The command is to SPEAK or LOGOS the Word of Christ which is the opposite of rhetoric, singing or playing instruments. Speaking in the tongues of angels was IN FACT making music in tongues.
La^l-eō ,Mark of the Locusts
II. chatter, Opposite. articulate speech, as of locusts, chirp, Theoc.5.34; mesēmbrias lalein tettix (sc. eimi), a very grasshopper to chirp at midday,III. of musical sounds, “aulō [flute] laleō” Theoc.20.29; of trees, v.supr.1.2; “di'aulou [flute] ē salpiggos l.”[trumpet] Arist. Aud.801a29; of Echo, magadin lalein sound the magadis, [double flute]
-kat-auleô , A. charm by flute-playing, metaphor I will flute to you on a ghastly flute, E.HF871 (troch.):--Pass., of persons, methuôn kai katauloumenos drinking wine to the strains of the flute, Pl.R.561c; k. pros chelônidos psophon to be played to on the flute with lyre accompaniment,Tettix This noise is freq. used as a simile for sweet sounds, Il.3.151, Hes.Op.582, Sc.393, Simon.173, 174, etc.; and Plato calls them hoi Mousōn prophētai, Phdr.262d; but they also became a proverb. for garrulity, “lalein tettix” Aristopho10.7: “t. polloi ginomenoi nosōdes to etos sēmainous
II. in Pass., [ton monochordon kanona] parechein tais aisthêsesi . . katauloumenon subdued by a flute accompaniment, to be piped down, ridiculed, gelômenoi
2. make a place sound with flute-playing, resound with flute-playing, nêsos katêuleito Plu.Ant.56
katapsallôA.play stringed instruments to, [sumposion]katauleinkai k. Plu.2.713e :--usu. in Pass., have music played to one, enjoy music, ib.785e; of places, resound with music, Id.Ant.56. 2. Pass., to be buried to the sound of music, 3. metaph., katapsalletai . . hodêmiourgos is drummed out
hupauleô , play on the flute in accompaniment, melo. lusiôidos 1 one who played women's characters in male attire,
The Mark of the Locusts: Abaddon's Muses (dirty adulteresses) performing as sorcerers.
Mousa ,Muse,A. “Olumpiades M., Dios aigiokhoio thugateres” Il.2.491, cf. Hes.Th.25, etc.; nine in number, first in Od.24.60; named in Hes.Th.75 sqq.II. mousa, as Appellat., music, song, “m. stugera” A.Eu.308 (anap.); “euphamos” Id.Supp.695 (lyr.); “kanakhan . . theias antiluron mousas” S.Tr.643 (lyr.); “Aiakō moisan pherein” Pi.N.3.28; tis hēde mousa; what strain is this ?2. hautē hē Sōkratous m. that was Socrates's way
Prophēt-euō A. to be a prophētēs or interpreter of the gods, “manteueo, Moisa, prophateusō d' egō” Pi. l.c.; tis prophēteuei theou; who is his interpreter
Mant-euomai 2. generally, presage, forebode, surmise, of presentiment, Opposite. knowledge, Pl.Cra.411b, R.349a,
II. consult an oracle, seek divinations, Pi.O.7.31, Hdt.1.46, 4.172, etc.; “en Delphoisi” Id.6.76; “ho gar theos manteuomenō moukhrēsen en Delphois pote” Ar.V.159, cf. Av.593
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