THE BEGINNING OF
THE PUBLIC ATTACK
Don.Finto.Latter.Day.Apostles.and.Prophets.html
Editorial
from Firm Foundation
"What you are about to read is dreadful. It sounds a
warning. Please stay with me as this preposterous
story unfolds.
Nine years ago [1988] in Nashville, at the Belmont Church 1,
a man named Don Finto returned from a sabbatical
with the startling claim that out in the desert God
appointed him to be an apostle with worldwide
authority.2
Finto dismissed the elders of the
congregation and made himself the sole ruler of that
body.
A tape recording was made of
that strange service. Max
Lucado was in the auditorium. The tape was
transcribed and you are about to read some of the cockeyed
things recorded on the tape.
Don Finto said: "I'm
just going to say to you again, It's hot. Our air
conditioner is broken." He said the service would
nevertheless continue and the people must not
complain. Finto blamed the air conditioner problem
on the devil, saying, "This is an attack of Satan,
however he came."
Then Don Finto said: "Max
(Lucado), I don't want to embarrass you, but I was
just thinking ... as we were talking a moment ago
... I am so grateful for your books ... for your
writings. I've read before these people a lot of
things you've written.
God is in you, brother,
and his writings are. This is the brother who wrote
... (long pause ... tell me the names of them), God
Came Near, ... uh ... On the Anvil, No
Wonder They Call Him Savior.
Those book titles may not
mean a lot to you, but you've heard some of 'em
cause I've read you some of it. And the Lord's working in him and Denalin
and in their family. Their ... uh ... I went to
school with Denalin's mom, Romadean. And ... uh
... uh ... just have been delighted.
They were missionaries in Brazil for awhile.
And now they are back in this country in the San
Antonio area, but I'm just grateful for them.
"RUSTY"
"Rusty, go ahead and bring that
word (speaking in
tongues). And let's
just hear- wherever you are. Just bring that word.
That you perceive the Lord to be saaa-bringing. And
let's just ... winna ... winna a word comes like
this, we judge it, and so let's just hear what this
is. I think Rusty had no idea what I was about to
say, and let's just hear from him ... and ... and
... and try to open our hearts to the Lord."
CORRECTION: Re: Tongues February
18 2004, 12:10 PM
Ken and Donnie, this morning
I have exchanged emails with Buster Dobbs. I will
quote from his email and will forward the email to
anyone who wishes to see his orginal writing. I am
quoting only the portion of the email which is
relevant to this discussion, and not including a
couple of paragraphs about personal family
contacts.
"The article you mention was
an editorial and much of it was transcribed from a
tape of the service. I (sic) two tapes from which
the transcript in the Firm Foundation (1997) was
taken. The Rusty referred to in the tape was not
Max Lucado, but is not further identified (J.E. Choate thinks he was from
a group called "The Kansas City Prophets). The tapes record services at the
Belmont Church in Nashville (June 26,
1988), and the article makes reference to a dinner
on April 22, 1997. As best I can remember, Lucado
said nothing that was recorded, but was present
- a silent witness. I do have the tapes, but need to
get them copied for you. Since I cannot send the
tapes email, you will need to give me your mailing
address."
H.A. "Buster" Dobbs"
Again, if anyone would like
for me to forward the original email, simply click
on my name and leave your email address and
request me to send it to you. I will be happy to
forward the complete email to you.
E-mail of Tom Brite
Jubilee 1997 was when the
team taught that baptism was not necessary. I am
sorry that the Kansas City Prophets were involved.
Kenneth Sublett
Comments from Donnie Cruz
"One paragraph of the article
states: "The tape ends with some meaningless and worthless 'prophecies' by Rusty.
"Strangely, Rusty Stark (in
2004) has posted a few articles on this thread,
one of which is titled, "well presented Chai"
dated February 12 2004, 6:55 PM. It included this
paragraph:
Let's take the Assembly of
God and the church of Christ as our primary
examples of two groups on opposite ends of the
spectrum in doctrinal beliefs. What if God says
to the AG at judgement, "there was really not a
prayer language like you thought...you know the
speaking in tongues thing." To the cofC He says,
"why would you not take the counsel and comfort
from My Holy Spirit and believe that He really
lives in the believer? You could have received
so much more than you would accept. My Word
would have given you so much more insight and
tolerance for My family." To both He would say,
"My grace is sufficient for both of you."
"We need to ask Rusty Stark
if he can help us clarify this issue regarding
this "Rusty" guy in the Don Finto tape.
"Rusty said, "Uh, if you could first pray for me,
because ... ah ... you know ... the tongue is his, not mine. And,
uh, and when the spirit of prophecy comes
upon me I have to step back and let the Holy
Spirit worketh [sic] in me.
So if you could just extend your faith towards me
and just ask God for his perfect word to rise up
in me (voice, We do).
And to come out of me today for
the (voice, Yeah) with the strength and the boldness
and without the quivers going on ... (this first
time I've done something like this). Ah ... but I've
done it for many, many years in private, so, ah,
d'you all wanta hear a word from the Lord today?
(voice, Yeah).
Ya need a word from the Lord today? (voice, Yeah).
That's what he's been telling
me, too. So, if, uh, first of all he told me, Now,
Frank, for the Lord -to receive your word-we have to
be comfortable. I said, Would you make the temperature go down
about five degrees in the auditorium (voice, Thank
God ... just came on). Just came on? (voice, Yeah).
See what I'm saying ... So the Lord's conformation.
The Lord also says ... that,
uh, that, uh, he is good about some things like
that, 'but I've
been holding the heat for a reason.'
"Could you just close your eyes
just for a second and help
me out. O-uh-God-those who have spiritual
tongues go ahead and speak forth in them.
Let's worship the Lord. Go to his throne because his
perfect word comes down from his throne.
It flows over the edge of the
rivers of living water. Flows down ... down into
our lives and into our spirits.
Many times we have to ascend into heaven to
receive the very word of the Lord. And it's hard
for us to open up with our eyes around us, and see
the things going on around us, to receive the word
of the Lord. Let's just worship. Confess out loud.
Let's just pray in the spirit right now."
Kalla ma sone, da fa kooka
shores. It kin da la key la shone da la kene (his
voice becomes hoarse and is reduced to an
indistinguishable whisper). Bear fose sone ta
wentta lone (voice trails off into a whisper
again). Da lotta tongue de cush--a--wong do so coo
toe. Ah shon da ba she dees ... O. Lord, your good
... Gash a la mon sewer. El ah ma she sa (more
whispering). Fa kon a la ma dorman begetta see de
so lawsuit...3
"O, Lord, O. Lord ... Lord ...
come ... into ... and reside, right now. You
withhold nothing. You tell us that you withhold
nothing. Freely receive this morning. We freely
receive. We need your word, Father. We are as dry and thirsty as the land
around us (voice, Right).
We need to feel your hand upon
us. We need to feel the finger that you carved the
ten commandments out of in stone -burning down
inside of us. Ahhh ... following your comforting
word ... we needa a gentle word ...
We need the word we can crawl up into your lap and say,
'Ah it is good. It's good to be with you. It's
good to be with ye. It's good to be with ye.'
(Long pause.)
Thank you, Father. Thank ya fer
turnip' the air conditioner on. Thank ya for
answerin' our prayers and cooling down. Now, we can
readily receive your word, Father. Father
forgive us of any murmuring (Voice, that's
right), and grumblin', which you hate
(voice, Amen).
Kept the Israelites in the
wilderness forty years 'cause they did that. And we
will not murmur this morning. We will not grumble at
the things ... things ... that are happening around
us. The heat (voice, That's right).
The repositioning of men. Father,
it is your will. It is your hand. We said yes. And
your doing it. Gotta see it from your
perspective-not ours. And so the Lord says, I am
doing a good thing. The Lord said, I've had my
hand upon this church for many, many years. O.
many, many years.
I've brought thee through
suffering. I've brought thee through persecution. I've brought
thee through changes. I've brought thee
through reorganization. I've brought thee
through the very depths of hell many times. But I
was faithful. And I was there. And many times in
your room-in your prayer closets-in cars and
buildings-you said, 'Where is the hand of the Lord?
Where is he?' The Lord said, 'I was faithful.
In order for you to receive more,
I have to test you to see how much you
love me and how much you will be obedient to me.
You will not escape that because I have taught my
own to do that. It is training from me. I send the
rains and I tell the rains to stop. I told the
rains to stop. In purification, I raised the
heat.'"
The tape ends with some
meaningless and worthless "prophecies" by Rusty."
Don.Finto.Latter.Day.Apostles.and.Prophets.html
Finto's views are those of the "Missional Church"
and the "Kairos Church Planters."
J.E.CHOATE: The giddy and
the gullible bought into it. The Belmont church
became Finto's church and ceased to be known as a Church of Christ.
He gathered leftover hippies,
street people, the cynical, the cranky, the
kooky, the amused, the wrong--headed, and the
unseeing.
The building was once again
full-full of people, full of frivolity, full of
nonsense. It rocked along, but most thought it was
too irregular to be taken seriously.
Now, fast--forward to April 22,
1997. The scene: A Nashville Hotel banquet room. The
purpose: To get
Nashville ready of the 1997 Jubilee.
The chairman of the meeting:
Rubel Shelly, preacher
for the Woodmont Hills Church in Nashville.
The speaker: Max Lucado, preacher for the
Oak Hills Church in San Antonio.
An honored guest: Don Finto,
preacher for the Belmont Church in Nashville.
We would have thought Don Finto
far too aberrant
to be taken seriously by Lucado and Shelly, but both
these men endorsed Finto that day. (This
program was recorded and the words of approval
and praise for the apostate Don Finto
preserved.)
Rubel Shelly, who has a
doctorate from Vanderbilt, asked Don Finto to bless the food-not
that Finto would ask God to bless the food, but that
Finto would bless it (Shelly made this statement
three times).
The speaker of the hour, Max Lucado, in his
introduction, said,
"Don Finto is my hero." So,
there you have Shelly, Lucado, and Finto-birds of
a feather flocking together. These men-Shelly and
Lucado-are either as much of a goose as Finto, or
they are laughing in their sleeves. I cannot tell
which. In either case, it is inexcusable.
Sleeping giant! Awake!
Arise!
1 The Belmont
Church of Christ is one of the oldest in Nashville.
According to a book written by Paul D. Phillips,
former Professor at David Lipscomb University, the
Belmont Church is no longer to be considered a
church of Christ. He wrote: "The major battles with
Church of Christ traditionalism all ended in victory
for the Charismatic crusaders led by the
Spirit--energized Don Finto. Many, but not all, of
the old traditions went to the scrap heap. The
preeminence of the church gave way to the
preeminence of Jesus Christ." Phillips speaks of how
"[T]he rebels at
Belmont trampled on one sacred tradition after
another.
In violation of the apostolic
injunction to be quiet
(sic), sisters frequently shared their
testimonies in the public assemblies and even
prayed audibly. Communion was served ... at
special events on week days ...
[A] profession of internal conflicts
emerged over matters of doctrine, faith, and
tradition. The name of the church, hand
clapping at the assemblies, the role
of women, spiritual gifts, and instrumental
music were among the most divisive."
Phillips speaks of how "The
issue of spiritual gifts, especially speaking in
tongues, would further split the Belmont
Church."
He tells of how Amy Grant sang one Sunday
evening with the accompaniment of her guitar," and
of how this caused "the elders by majority vote"
to read the statement that "anyone who felt led to
share in an assembly with an instrument would
not be denied on the basis of the instrument
alone, but the offering of Psalm or hymn
would be judged as any other statement of
worship." He continues, "Perhaps, no one could
foresee that within a decade choir--led
congregational singing would be accompanied by a
band to the beat of ear--splitting drums. The
fight was over, and those opposed to instrumental
music in the worship (including two of the elders)
felt compelled to leave for conscience sake."
Phillips says that the Belmont Church could no
longer be identified as a Church of Christ. It
should be noted that Phillips' history of the
Belmont Church is written from the viewpoint of
one who is sympathetic with the innovations and
supportive of the departures. He continues to be a
member of Belmont and gives full endorsement to
Don Finto. Return
to article.
2 In announcing his claim to
be an apostle of Jesus, Finto said,
"We began to realize that
there were many apostles in the New Testament
other than the twelve. Silas, Timothy, Andronicus,
Junias, and others were called apostles."
Barnabas is called an
apostle in Acts 14:14, but he was not one of the
twelve.
He was, apparently, an apostle
of the church at Antioch in Syria. The word
"apostle" means "one sent." Barnabas was sent out by
Antioch, but not called and appointed as an apostle
of Jesus. Finto would be hard pressed to prove that
any of the others he mentions were apostles of any
kind. The twelve apostles of Jesus were chosen
before the resurrection of Jesus to receive, report,
and confirm the revealed word and give witness to
the fact of the resurrection (John 16:13; Mark
16:20--21; Acts 10:39--42). In selecting a
replacement for Judas, Peter said, "Of the men
therefore that have companied with us all the time
that the Lord Jesus went in and went out among us,
beginning from the baptism of John, unto the day
that he was received up from us, of these must one
become a witness with us of his resurrection" (Acts
1:21--22). Paul was an exception and says of himself
that he "was as one born out of due season." The
twelve apostles were witnesses of the resurrection
and Paul had to see Christ in his glory-the risen
Christ-to qualify. Paul wrote, "And last of all ...
he [Jesus] appeared also unto me (1 Cor. 15:8).
Jesus appeared to Paul "last
of all."
Therefore he did not appear
to Don Finto at all-at least not in the sense he
appeared to Paul.
Finto needs to take note that
the New Testament mentions "false apostles" (2
Cor. 11:13), and that Jesus commended the church at
Ephesus because they could "not bear evil men,
and didst try them that call themselves apostles,
and they are not, and didst find them false" (Rev.
2:2).
The holy city Jerusalem
(heaven) is described as having "twelve foundations,
and on them twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb"
(Rev. 21:14).
Sorry, but there is not room
for Don Finto's
name on the foundations of that great city.
The church is "built upon the
foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ
Jesus himself being the chief corner stone" (Eph.
2:20).
Finto's claim to be an
apostle is presumptuous, arrogant, and false.
Some say, on not too good
authority, the alleged apparition in the desert
claimed by Finto took place near Roswell, New
Mexico, and involved creatures with huge
eye sockets, pea--green in color, and with
antennae protruding from their skulls.
When they spoke it sounded
like, "Ga da fa ka sock ah mock ah." Finto thought
God was speaking to him.
3 This was taken from the tape and
spelled phonetically because the words are not a part
of any known language, unless it is the language of an
illiterate baby -- cooing and gurgling. The scripture
says that if there is no interpreter, it is unlawful
to speak in a tongue 1 Cor. 14:27--28. The jabber of
Rusty was not interpreted. No reasonable person would
claim the words of Rusty on that fateful day in 1988
edified anybody. How could they? Please see 1
Corinthians 14:2--20. |