Novensiles - Worshiping
Newness And
Change
When the culture changes some pseudo-theologians claim that the LAWS must change: God cannot keep UP TO DO DATE without us. But, in order to change the laws--ESPECIALLY OF GOD--you must change the MUSIC because without radical MIND CONTROL you cannot barge into a person's life and FORCE THEM TO CHANGE because they know that you have no authority of MOLEST those living under Grace.
MARK OF ONE OF THE PLAGUES IN REVELATION See Revelation 22 for the other plagues
4. of musical sounds, houtôsi plęgenta houtôs ephthenxato ta phônęenta
The Muses or sorcerers (Rev 18:23) were known as dirty adulterers (selling at retail) were the "musical worship team" of Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon). They were sentenced underground as LOCUSTS and have been UNLEASHED out of their SMOKEY exile for these end times.
Plague: b. sting, plęgeisa hupo skorpiou Plato, Euthydemus S. Fr.37, V. an engine of war for discharging arrow
-[289e] For not only do these speech-writers themselves, when I am in their company, impress me as prodigiously clever, Cleinias, but their art itself seems so exalted as to be almost inspired. However, this is not surprising; for it is a part of the sorcerer's art,Sorcerer: Epoide. A song sunt to or over: hence, enchantment. Charm for or against, Pharmaka. Of the mai
-Sophocles, Ajax. To Tecmessa.
Come, take the child right away, shut tight the doors and make no laments before the house.[580] God, what a weepy thing is woman. Quick, close the house! It is not for a skilful doctor to moan incantations over a wound that craves the knife.-Epôid-os , on, epaidô
b. Subst., enchanter, 2.epôidos, ho, verse or passage returning at intervals a BURDEN.A. singing to or over, using songs or charms to heal wounds, “epōdoi muthoi” Pl.Lg.903b.
-[290a] and only slightly inferior to that. The sorcerer's art is the charming of snakes and tarantulas and scorpions and other beasts and diseases, while the other is just the charming and soothing of juries, assemblies, crowds, and so forth. Or does it strike you differently? I asked.Beasts Therion III. as a term of reproach, beast, creature cowardly, “hē mousikē aei ti kainon thērion tiktei”
MARK: always a new style of music and drama.
-mousikē professional musicians, more accomplished in speaking before a mob, elegant, delicate
-kainon a new style of music, a new style of drama, newly-invented, new techniques, sophists, therion to hunt or chase.
-Kolax. A flatterer, fawner, parasites: lisping pronounce of korax.
A. flatterer, fawner, Ar.Pax756, Lys.28.4, Pl.Phdr. 240b, etc.; “tukhēs kolakes” Antipho Soph.65; “pantes hoi k. thētikoi kai hoi tapeinoi k.” Arist.EN1125a1, cf. 1108a29, Thphr.Char.2.1; parasite, Eup.159.1, Antisth. ap. D.L.6.4.2. in later Gr., = Att. goēs, Moer. p.113 P.Assemblies ekklęsi-astęs a member of the ekklesia synagogue, church
No, it appears to me, he replied, to be as you say.
Which way then, said I, shall we turn now? What kind of art shall we try?-S. Fr.37 Sophocles, Tracking Satyrs speaks of Hermes who as an infant invented the HARP and used it to steal Apollo's cattle by "making them walk backward." You can read the same story in Homer's Hymn to Apollo. Hermes is the father of "hermeneutics" thieves, liars and musicians.
From there I came, in one leap, to the Stymphalian Lake and Mount Cyllene, hard to climb. I speak to the forest: if any shepherd or any rustic or any charcoal-burner is here, or any saytr from the mountains, child of the river-nymphs, I announce these things to one and all. Whoever can capture the one who stole the cattle of Apollo Paean, his is the reward that stands here. Enter Silenus, left.3
OF THE GREEK DRAMAS DEFINING THE NEW STYLE OF WORSHIP FROM OLD STYLE BABYLON
"One of the greatest of all Greek dramas, The Bacchae powerfully dramatizes the
conflict between the emotional and rational sides of the human psyche.
When the people of Thebes deny the existence of the god Dionysos,
he punishes themby unleashing the full force of female sexuality, thereby destroying social order and driving them to certain tragedy.
"It is symptomatic of structures that have lost their elasticity, becoming too rigid to accommodate further development,
to intensify the semantics of self-reference as a sort of final act of self-reassurance.
The patterns of self-reference by drama to drama as we see them in The Bacchae of Euripides reflect a crisis in the very genre of tragedy,in the context of drastic changes in Athenian society toward the end of the fifth century; the prospect is one of abrupt confrontation and loss." -- Nagy, Pindar's Homer p. 388
"dionysus is a strange god. Although he is best known as the god of wine, he is also a vegetation deity, a god of the liquid element,
a death god,
a god who comes into and changes, often irrevocably, the normal community life,
and lastly the god of the theatre.
"The duality of dionysus is related to another of his attributes, which is that of loss of identity.Nietzsche (in The Birth of Tragedy) treats Dionysus as a dynamic of time
that destroys old forms and brings forth the new
(one reason for his role in the Mysteries) with 'an indifference to the differences'. Nietzsche contrasts this to Apollo who is the God of light, and of forms in particular.
Of course, Dionysus was honored at Apollo's shrine at the Oracle of Delphi. Click to see how a Seeker System restores the ancient pattern of Apollo who is Appolyon or Abbadon.
Agave is certainly not herself when she tears her son to pieces, acting in unison with her sisters. In this respect they are behaving in the same way crowds often do, in which the individual is subliminated by the mob. dionysus induces mass hysteria, he is the god of mob fury.
"This loss of individuality is demonstrated in the theatre not only by the masks which the actors wear, but also by the chorus.
"They dance and sing in unison, all chanting the same words. The members of the chorus have no identity, each is merely an insignificant part of the whole, with no separate will. All individuality willpower must be given up to dionysus, when the god choses to take it. From
Andrew White notes that: "While the fathers and schoolmen were labouring to deduce a science of meteorology from our sacred books, there oozed up in European society a mass of traditions and observances which had been lurking since the days of paganism;
and, although here and there appeared a churchman to oppose them,
the theologians and ecclesiastics ere long began to adopt them and to clothe them with the authority of religion.See baptizing Santa: Rubel Shelly to worship the S.O.N. God as the S.U.N. god.
Both among the pagans of the Roman Empire and among the barbarians of the North the Christian missionaries had found it easier to prove the new God supreme than to prove the old gods powerless.
- Faith in the miracles of the new religion
- seemed to increase rather than to diminish faith in the miracles of the old;
- and the Church at last began admitting the latter (the old) as facts,
- but ascribing them to the devil.
The gods of newness are always in competition with the older, decadent gods because the collection plates too often run dry:
Arnobius writing (A.D. 297-303) Ridicules instrumental music in worship and Charismatic Worship as idolatrous.
In a footnote on the first page of Book I the editor notes that--
The words insanir, m bacchari, refer to the appearance of the ancient seers when under the influence of the deity. The meaning is, that they make their asserverations with all the confidence of a seer when filled, as he pretended, with the influence of the god." (Arnibious, Ante-Nicene, VI, p. 413)
He notes that it is childish that the gods of the pagans were not interested in heavenly things but with the courser things of earth. However, he is aware that the professional religionists devised the myths and fables to fool fools. They felt this need because "we need to do something about the falling attendance."
Of the Greek and Hebrew SECTARIAN HYPOCRITES:
Nay, rather, to speak out more truly, the augurs, the dream interpreters, the soothsayers, the prophets, and the priestlings, ever vain, have devised these fables; for they,
fearing that their own arts be brought to nought, and that they may extort but scanty contributions from the devotees, now few and infrequent,
whenever they have found you to be willing that their craft should come into disrepute, cry aloud, the Gods are neglected, and
in the temples there is now a very thin attendance. For ceremonies are exposed to derision, and the time-honoured rites of institutions once sacred have sunk before the superstitions of new religions.
And men--a senseless race--being unable, from their inborn blindness, to see even that which is placed in open light,
dare to assert in their frenzy
what you in your sane mind do not blush to believe. (Arnobius Against the Heathen, Ante-Nicene Fathers, VI, p. 418).
Arnobius also sounds the universal warning that the self-selected musical prophesiers trying to find their god and lost manhood were more than gender-neutral:
"Tyrants and kings plunder and pillage the treasuries of temples and "wrest away the chastity of matrons and maidens,--these men you name indigites and divi; and you worship with couches, altars, temples and other service, and by celebrating their games and birthday... who seek to persuade men that the rights of marriage should be held in common; who lie with boys, beautiful, lustful, naked; who declare that you are beasts...
all these with wonder and applause you exalt to the stars of heaven, you place in the shrines of your libraries, you present with chariots and statues, and as much as in you lies, give with a kind of immortality." (Arnibious, Ante-Nicene, VI, p. 432)
"Some of them are brought forward in the character of lovers, destroyers of purity, to commit shameful and degrading deeds not only with women, but with men also. You take no care as to what is said about matters of such importance." (Arnobius, Against the Heathen, AnteNicene, VI, p. 487).
Arnobius Warned about the methods of the new, god-like, hero:
"They speak in the most elegant language, and that their words flow in polished periods; that they reason in syllogisms with utmost acuteness; .. that they say many things about the different kinds of numbers, many things about music; that by their maxims and precepts they settle the problems of geometry also." However, he continues--
A comparison of persons must be decided, not by vigour of eloquence,
but by the excellence of the works which they have done.
He must not be called a good teacher who has expressed himself clearly, but he who accompanies his promises with the guarantee of divine works." (Arnobius Against the Heathen, Ante-Nicene, VI, p. 438).
"If men either knew themselves thoroughly, or had the slightest knowledge of God, they would never claim as their own a divine and immortal nature; nor would they think themselves something great because they have made for themselves... knives, swords" and etc.
carried away by pride and arrogance, would they believe themselves to be deities of the first rank, and fellows of the highest in his exaltation, because they had devised the arts of grammar, music, oratory, and geometry.
For we do not see what is so wonderful in these arts, that because of their discovery
the soul should be believed to be above the sun as well as all the stars, to surpass both in grandeur and essence the whole universe, of which these are parts. "
For what else do these assert that they can either declare or teach, than that we may learn to know the rules and differences of nouns,
the intervals in the sounds of different tones, that we may speak persuasively in lawsuits, that we may measure the confines of the earth?
Now if the soul had brought these arts with it from the celestial regions, and it were impossible not to know them, all men would long before this be busied with them all over the earth...
But see now how few musicians, logicians, and geometricians are there in the world! How few orators, poets, critics!..." (Arnibious, Ante-Nicene, VI, p. 441)
"And be not deceived or deluded with vain hopes by that which is said by some ignorant and most presumptious pretenders, that they are born of God, and are not subject to the decrees of fate; that His palace lies open to them if they lead a life of temperance, and that after death as men, they are restored without hinderance, as if their father's abode;
not by that which the "Magi assert, that they have intercessory prayers, won over by which some powers make the way easy
to those who are striving to mount to heaven;
not by that which Etruria holds out in the Acherontic books that souls become, and are freed from the law of death, if the blood of certain animals is offered to certain deities.
These are empty delusions, and excite vain desires. None but the Almighty God can preserve souls; nor is there any one besides who can give them length of days, and grant to them also a spirit which shall never die."
(Footnote: Magi are 'certain fortune-telling vagrant seers, who persuade the rich
that they have power with the gods, by means of charms and sacrifices... on familiar terms with evil powers, and thus able to accomplish whatever is within these spirit's power.) (Arnibious, Ante-Nicene, VI, p. 457)
The "Familiar Spirit" of the witch of Endor lived lived was an empty, hollow wineskin. The hollow echo of her own voice was sold as a message from the dead. God surprised her!
Ezek 22:27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves [YELLOW] ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
XLII. Instead of herds of oxen, endeavor to assemble flocks of friends about your house.
XLII As a wolf resembles a dog, so much does a flatterer, an adulterer, a parasite, resemble a friend. Take heed, therefore, that instead of guardian dogs, you do not inadvertently admit ravening wolves. [All musicians were also called PARASITES and not allowed to feed on polite society]
-lukos VI. nickname of paiderastai, AP12.250 (Strat.), cf. Pl.Phdr. 241d.
VI. nickname of paiderastai, AP12.250 (Strat.), cf. Pl.Phdr. 241d.
-paiderast-ęs , ou, ho, A. lover of boys, mostly in bad sense, Ar.Ach.265 X.An.7.4.7, Pl. Smp.192b, Eub.130, etc.Ezek 22:28 And her prophets have
daubed them with untempered [Taphel, Tabret, frivolity] morter,
seeing vanity, and divining lies [magical songs] unto them, saying,
Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken.
The god of Newness was one of the Indignities or gods over natural forces. They included the lares or house guests or spirits. For instance, Rubel Shelly identifies the Holy Spirit as "guest" by confusing him with the geist. This spirit of newness certainly has a magical power over the uneducated who are always manipulated by warnings against the "decadent and deliterious."
All you have to do is become a card-carrying member of something new and the ignorant and superstitious automatically fall at your feet. For instance, the following quotations show that anyone claiming to be the "Agent" of newness will automatically panic the enemy into complete silence -- until, as Joseph Campbell, "the mind kicks in."
When the Roman army was facing defeat at the base of Mount Vesuvius the enemy, Decius, prayed to Novensiles for the ability to overwhelm the enemy:
"After this prayer he ordered the lictors to go to T. Manlius and at once announce to his colleague that he had devoted himself on behalf of the army. He then girded himself with the Gabinian cincture, and in full armour leaped upon his horse and dashed into the middle of the enemy.
"To those who watched him in both armies, he appeared something awful and superhuman, as though sent from heaven
to expiate and appease all the anger of the gods and
to avert destruction from his people and bring it on their enemies."All the dread and terror which he carried with him threw the front ranks of the Latins into confusion which soon spread throughout the entire army. This was most evident, for wherever his horse carried him they were paralysed as though struck by some death-dealing star;
but when he fell, overwhelmed with darts, the Latin cohorts, in a state of perfect consternation, fled rom the spot and left a large space clear.
The Romans, on the other hand, freed from all religious fears, pressed forward as though the signal was then first given and commenced a great battle.
This happened when the Jews--without God--used the religious bluff of the Ark of the Covenant and loud mouthed singers and musicians. The enemy WAS NOT BLUFFED. The Levitical "musicians" or NOISE MAKERS were under the KING and the COMMANDERS of the army. They DID NOT LEAD THE WORSHIP but the slaughter right there in the courts of the LIKE THE NATION'S TEMPLE where they were slaughtering TYPES of God in Christ but could never find peace.
Much of what is peddled as "newness" is as new as the Tower of Babel and as spiritual as Sodom and Gomorrah. These change methods are clearly a product of human phylosophy out of the heads of the new Phd who have lost their faith and appeal to Greek thought insteac of Jesus.
In The Ancient Kingdom of the Nile, Walter A. Fairservis, Jr., Page 84 he notes that:
"In Hellenistic materialism men thought of personal wealth more than personal character.
This tendency was expressed in a host of things ranging from style of dress to systems of teaching. What Cato was witnessing was the adjustment of Roman culture to a new environment, both cultural and geographical.
The priestlings of the god of Newness claim that CULTURE HAS CHANGED [Give them a Z for zeal]. Therefore, as God partnered with the people to WORK OUT THEIR SALVATION in a form of Scripture according to Rubel Shelly, WE must partner with the god of NEWNESS to work out a SCRIPTURE OF NEWNESS.
Such an adjustment had to come about, for the stern ideals of republican Rome were completely out of balance with the large world Rome had created. Cato's demand for adherence to an older, unchanging order was impossible of fulfillment even should the desire be there.
The cultural unbalance was a far stronger voice than even the patriotic virtues recalled by stern Cato.
The tragedy is that the world of Roman civilization that evolved in spite of noble effort was never quite able to bring about a lasting equilibrium and a few centuries collapsed to revive only in other forrns.
"Anyone looking objectively at cultures in unbalance find that its people make a fetish out of change. As long as there is change things are good.
Tradition, conservatism, ever ceremony, have little real voice in this context.
Arts and crafts reveal a love of experimentation and exhibit endless variety in tastes."Such cultures tend to be aggressive and more often than not try to superimpose their way of life on others.
"The economic need for raw materials to give firmer foundation to the cultural structure is one cause of this aggressiveness. [Hitler called it 'human material' and mobilized it with Wagner as His Musical Worship Minister]
"As indicated before, civilizations always seem to be short of what they need. Their very complexity ensures that there will always be needs exceeding the local supplies.
Arnobius asked of those who want to entertain the "gods" as co-equal with themselves:
28. Can any man, who has accepted the first principles even of reason, be found to mar or dishonour the unchanging nature of Deity with morals so vile?
to credit the gods with natures such as human kindness has often charmed away and moderated in the beasts of the field?
How, I ask, can it be said that the gods are far removed from any feeling of passion? that they are gentle, lovers of peace, mild? that in the completeness of their excellence they reach the height of perfection, and the highest wisdom also? or, why should we pray them to avert from us misfortunes and calamities, if we find that they are themselves the authors of all the ills by which we are daily harassed? Call us impious as much as you please, contemners of religion, or atheists,
you will never make us believe in gods of love and war,
that there are gods to sow strife, and to disturb the mindby the stings of the furies (godesses of the underworld). For either they are gods in very truth, and do not do what you have related; or if they do the things which you say, they are doubtless no gods at all. (The three females were appeased by being given a title)
Juno was one of the goddesses of the Corinthian women whom Paul accused of just "speaking into the air." Arnobius again asks:
But now, does not a similar mode of thought remove Juno from the list of gods?
For if she is the air, as you have been wont to jest and say,
repeating in reversed order the syllables of the Greek name,
there will be found no sister and spouse of almighty Jupiter.
38. How, then, can you give to religion its whole power, when you fall into error about the gods themselves? or summon us to their solemn worship, while you give us no definite information how to conceive of the deities themselves?
For, to take no notice of the other authors, either the first makes away with and destroys six divine Muses, if they are certainly nine; or the last adds six who have no existence to the three who alone really are; so that it cannot be known or understood what should be added, what taken away; and in the performance of religious rites we are in danger of either worshipping that which does not exist, or passing that by which, it may be, does exist.
Piso believes that the Novensiles are nine gods, set up among the Sabines at Trebia. Granius thinks that they are the Muses (the normal size of a worship team), agreeing with Aelius;
Varro teaches that they are nine,
because, in doing anything, that number is always reputed most powerful and greatest;
Cornificius, that they watch over (women overseeing the flock) the renewing of things, because, by their care, all things are afresh renewed in strength, and endure;
Manilius, that they are the nine gods to whom alone Jupiter gave power to wield his thunder.
Cincius declares them to be deities brought from abroad, named from their very newness,because the Romans were in the habit of sometimes individually introducing into their families the rites of conquered cities, while some they publicly consecrated;
and lest, from their great number, or in ignorance, any god should be passed by, all alike were briefly and compendiously invoked under one name-Novensiles.
Paul identified the musical tongue speakers and singers in Corinth as being like Barbarians. These were almost universally the introducers of musical magic into the Greek world. After the Catholics got government support the PAGAN PRIESTS flocked to the paymasters. The church claims boldly to have introduced MUSIC into worship because it was COMMON TO ALL OF THE PAGAN CULTS.
39. There are some, besides, who assert that those who from being men became gods, are denoted by this name,-as Hercules, Romulus, Aeculapius, Liber (wineskin god), Aeneas. These are all, as is clear, different opinions; and it cannot be, in the nature of things, that those who differ in opinion can be regarded as teachers of one truth. For if Piso's opinion is true, Aelius and Granius say what is false;
if what they say is certain, Varro, with all his skill, is mistaken,
who substitutes things most frivolous and vain for those which really exist.
If
they are named
Novensiles because their number is
nine,
Cornificius is shown to stumble,
who, giving them might and power not their own,
makes them the divine overseers (eldresses) of renovation.
But if Cornificius is right in his belief, Cincius is found to be not wise, who connects with the power of the dii Novensiles the gods of conquered cities.
But if they are those whom Cincius asserts them to be, Manilius will be found to speak falsely, who comprehends those who wield another's thunder under this name.
But if that which Manilius holds is true and certain, they are utterly mistaken who suppose that those raised to divine honours,
and deified mortals, are thus named because of the novelty of their rank.
But if the Novensiles are those who have deserved to be raised to the stars after passing through the life of men, there are no dii Novensiles at all. For as slaves, soldiers, masters, are not names of persons comprehended under them, but of officers, ranks, and duties,
so, when we say that Novensiles is the name of gods who by their virtues have become gods from being men,
it is clear and evident that no individual persons are marked out particularly,
but that newness itself is named by the title Novensiles.
The Greeks made fear, drunkeness, happiness and every condition of mankind into gods. They did and will do anything to keep the people's minds off the One Holy God. These were the anti-Christs of the ancient world. Without exception when people wanted to introduce NEW GODS created in their own image the first changed the MUSIC. Arius, for instance, used public music (as opposed to private hyming to God in private) used women to propogandize what to rational minds was virtuality insanity. What people fear is not newnes: they worship newness. They cannot tolerate the idea that the universe is operated by a SUPERIOR being.
Plato in the Republic 4 notes:
Then to sum up: This is the point to which, above all, the attention of our rulers should be directed, --
that music and gymnastic be preserved in their original form, and no innovation made. They must do their utmost to maintain them intact. And when any one says that mankind most regard
The newest song which the singers have,
they will be afraid that he may be praising, not new songs,
but a new kind of song;and this ought not to be praised, or conceived to be the meaning of the poet;
for any musical innovation is full of danger to the whole State, and ought to be prohibited.So Damon tells me, and I can quite believe him;-
he says that when modes of music change, the laws of the State always change with them.
"rhetoricians, sOPHISts, Singers and Musicians." In the Greek world they were known as sorcerers and because they were considered as worthless as the flute-girls or homosexual male performers, the Greek world knew them as dangerous PARASITES. That is why Jesus CAST OUT the minstrels LIKE DUNG. The Greek Literature provides lots of evidence connecting music and those who ate the SACRIFICES of gods such as Baal-Peor--dung just as Circe seduces with drugs and music and feeds her DISCIPLES with dung patty cake. In the image of the LOCUSTS (Muses or musical performers) they had the sting of the scorpion and they MARKED those addicted to Apollo, their master of "musical harmony, twanging arrows to send singing arrows (a sexual meaning), thieves and liars.]Yes, said Adeimantus; and you may add my suffrage to Damon's and your own.
Then, I said, our guardians must lay the foundations of their fortress in music?
Yes, he said; the lawlessness of which you speak too easily steals in. [Plato called it "gender bleed" of those who practiced it.]Yes, I replied, in the form of amusement; and at first sight it appears harmless.
Why, yes, he said, and there is no harm; were it not that little by little this spirit of licence, finding a home, imperceptibly penetrates into manners and customs; whence, issuing with greater force, it invades contracts between man and man, and from contracts goes on to laws and constitutions, in utter recklessness, ending at last, Socrates, by an overthrow of all rights, private as well as public.
Is that true? I said.
That is my belief, he replied.
Then, as I was saying, our youth should be trained from the first in a stricter system,for if amusements become lawless,
and the youths themselves become lawless, they can never grow up into well-conducted and virtuous citizens.Very true, he said.
And when they have made a good beginning in play, and by the help of music have gained the habit of good order, then this habit of order, in a manner how unlike the lawless play of the others! will accompany them in all their actions and be a principle of growth to them, and if there be any fallen places a principle in the State will raise them up again.
Very true, he said.
God in Christ came to suffer and die to PUT DOWN the clergy who, like the Greeks, spent their time in the worship of NEWNESS so that they OBSOLETED the Word of God. Therefore, he outlawed ANYONE who presumed to LADE with NEW BURDENS which also meant "further taxes." In turn, He gave REST like the Sabbath, which was actually to QUARANTINE the "worship centers" of the Goyiim--meaning Babylonian--SABBATH WORSHIP meaning legalistic human works such as trying to engage the gods in music-induced SEXUALITY which they "HUCKSTERED" as spiritual. This is why singers or minstrels are rooted in "prostitutes" and instrumentalists as "Sodomites."
The "PRIESTS" of the God of Newness have their "master's" task which is to keep you LADED with "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals" where you CANNOT worship God in the new PLACE of the human Spirit as it individually GIVES HEED to the Words of Christ which are SPIRIT and LIFE. Pushing NEWNESS is evil because the LOCUSTS which Apollo or Abaddon or Apollyon are the most ancient FALLEN ANGELS: muses (musicians and instrumentalists) serving Apollo--the Devil. God will push them back into their holes loaded with FUEL FOR BURNING to silence them forever and ever Amen!
Counter added 11/05/04 2200 11.09.07 656 1.24.09 1007 7.27.10 1190
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