Rubel Shelly : Worship Call to Community Rubel Shelly and John York: Neo-Trinitarinism or Tritheism which is polytheism or three separated, independant members of the Family of God. The Max Lucado - Rubel Shelly neo-trinitariasm no basis in the Bible or in the church Fathers. They are horrified at the notion that God be thought of as three separated beings. God is one because Father, Son and Spirit resided in Jesus Christ. Otherwise, it is sheer nonsense to think of three independant gods who are ONE God. To call God a person was heresy.Rubel Shelly John York: An orthodox theology of the Trinity reveals a God in relationship. Altogether unlike Aristotle's singular Unmoved Mover who somehow creates order in the cosmos by having all things move toward him -- while he/it dwells in splendid isolation and reflects on him/itself -- the God of Christian faith is social.
The Jews make themselves altogether ridiculous, in pretending that God held communication with the earth or with angels. The earth, forsooth, was a most excellent adviser! And to ascribe the least portion of a work so exquisite to angels, is a sacrilege to be held in abhorrence. Where, indeed, will they find that we were created after the image of the earth, or of angels?
Does not Moses directly exclude all creatures in express terms, when he declares that Adam was created after the image of God?
Others who deem themselves more acute, but are doubly infatuated, say that God spoke of himself in the plural number, according to the custom of princes.
As if, in truth, that barbarous style of speaking, which has grown into use within a few past centuries, had, even then, prevailed in the world. But it is well that their canine wickedness has been joined with a stupidity so great, that they betray their folly to children.
Christians, therefore, properly contend, from this testimony, that there exists a plurality of Persons (personae in the church Fathers) in the Godhead.
God summons no foreign counsellor; hence we infer that
he finds within 1) himself something distinct; as, in truth,
his eternal (2) wisdom and (3) power reside within him.And speaking of Aristotle:
"In our image, &c." Interpreters do not agree concerning the meaning of these words. The greater part, and nearly all, conceive that the word image is to be distinguished from likeness. And the common distinction is, that image exists in the substance, likeness in the accidents of anything. They who would define the subject briefly,
say that in the image are contained those endowments which God has conferred on human nature at large, while they expound likeness to mean gratuitous gifts.
But Augustine, beyond all others, speculates with excessive refinement, for the purpose of fabricating a Trinity in man. For in laying hold of the three faculties of the soul enumerated by Aristotle, the intellect, the memory, and the will, he afterwards out of one Trinity derives many.
There is no orthodox view of the trinity (a minor exception) which is so heretical as to see GOD divided up into three separated Beings. The person who coined the word TRINITAS notes:
Tertullian (c. 150 - c. 225 A.D.) was the first person recorded by history to use the words trinity (Latin: trinitas), substance (substantia), and person (persona) in relation to God. [92] He was the first to speak of three persons in one substance (Latin: una substantia et tres personae).
Tertullian adhered to the economic conception of the trinity.
That is, he believed that the trinity exists for the purpose of revelation only,
........... and after this has been accomplished
........... the distinctions between the persons will cease."However, he definitely differed from Irenaeus in that he used the Logos doctrine of the Greek apologists. Tertullian equated the Logos with the Son. He believed the Father brought the Logos into existence for the creation of the world and the Logos was subordinate to the Father. The doctrine of the trinity posed no problem for Tertullian, for his whole theology rested on the thought that the more impossible the object of faith is, the more certain it is. He has been characterized by the statement, "I believe because it is absurd."
"It is apparent that many people in Tertullian's time opposed his new formulation. By his own admission the majority of believers in his day rejected his doctrine on two grounds: Their Rule of Faith (early creed or statement of belief) prohibited polytheism, and his doctrine divided the unity of God. [Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 3.}
See Rubel Shelly and the Greek Logos
Nevertheless: In his Apology, Tertullian Chapter XVII. noted:
The object of our worship is the One God,
........... He who by His commanding word,
........... His arranging wisdom,
........... His mighty power,brought forth from nothing this entire mass of our world, with all its array of elements, bodies, spirits, for the glory of His majesty; whence also the Greeks have bestowed on it the name of Kosmos. The eye cannot see Him, though He is (spiritually) visible.
THEOPHILUS TO AUTOLYCUS Book II CHAP. X.--THE WORLD CREATED BY GOD THROUGH THE WORD.
And first, they taught us with one consent that
God made all things out of nothing; for nothing was coeval with God: but He being His own place, and wanting nothing, and existing before the ages, willed to make man by whom He might be known; for him, therefore, He prepared the world. For he that is created is also needy; but he that is uncreated stands in need of nothing.
God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bowels, begat Him, emitting Him along with His own wisdom before all things.
He had this Word as a helper in the things that were created by Him, and by Him He made all things.
He is called "governing principle" [arkh], because He rules, and is Lord of all things fashioned by Him.
He, then, being Spirit of God, and governing principle, and wisdom, and power of the highest,
came down upon the prophets, and through them spoke of the creation of the world and of all other things.
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2Co.3:17
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Pe 1:11
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1Jn.4:3
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Rev 19:10
For the prophets were not when the world came into existence, but the
........... wisdom of God which was in Him,
........... and His holy Word which was always present with Him.
........... Wherefore He speaks thus by the prophet Solomon:"When He prepared the heavens I was there, and when He appointed the foundations of the earth I was by Him as one brought up with Him."
And Moses, who lived many years before Solomon, or, rather, the Word of God by him as by an instrument, says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." First he named the "beginning," and "creation," then he thus introduced God; for not lightly and on slight occasion is it right to name God.
For the divine wisdom foreknew that some would trifle and name a multitude of gods that do not exist.
In order, therefore, that
........... the living God
........... ........... might be known by His works,
......... ............. and that [it might be known that] by His WordGod created the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, he said, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Then having spoken of their creation, he explains to us: "And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God moved upon the water." This, sacred Scripture teaches at the outset, to show that matter, from which God made and fashioned the world, was in some manner created, being produced by God.
Therefore, rather than THREE PERSONS, God is almost always identified by the three major images of His work in the world. Tertullian used some words objected to by the Restoration Scholars but he never CUT UP the Godhead into The Family of God or gods.
But, first, I shall discuss His essential nature, and so the nature of His birth will be understood. We have already asserted that
God made the world, and all which it contains,
........... by His Word,
........... and Reason,
........... and Power.It is abundantly plain that your philosophers, too, regard the Logos-that is, the Word and Reason-as the Creator of the universe.
Word
God
Reason
Power
He is made a second in manner of existence-in position, not in nature;
and He did not withdraw from the original source, but went forth. This ray of God, then, as it was always foretold in ancient times, descending into a certain virgin, and made flesh in her womb,
........... is in His birth God and man united.And we, in like manner, hold that the Word, and Reason, and Power, by which we have said God made all,
........... have spirit as their proper and essential substratum, in which t
........... ........... he Word has in being to give forth utterances,
........... ........... and reason abides to dispose and arrange,
........... ........... and power is over all to execute.A search through the literature from Pentecost onward will find NO SUPPORT for GOD THE STANDING COMMITTEE prior to the Gospel Advocate and H. Leo Boles.AS NOTED BY JOHN MARK HICKS, MAX LUCADO AND RUBEL SHELLY ARE THE MODERN POPULARIZERS OF TRITHISM. THIS "INCARNATIONAL VIEW," THEREFORE DENIES THAT CHRIST CAME FULLY IN THE FLESH AND THAT AMOUNTS TO ANTI-CHRIST.
> "This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages. The reason for this is that the three members of the Godhead were called personae (faces or countenances): The Father is persona, the Son is persona, and the Spirit is persona. Persona here means a special characteristic of the divine ground, expressing itself in an independent hypostasis.
Thus, we can say that it was the nineteenth century which made God into a person, with the result that the greatness of the classical idea of God was destroyed by this way of speaking... but to speak of God as a person would have been heretical for the Middle Ages; it would have been to them a Unitarian heresy, because it would have conflicted with the statement that God has three personae, three expressions of his being. (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 190)
> "The Spirit accompanies the divine Word of the Father, just as the breath (Greek, pneuma; Latin, spiritus) accompanies the word spoken by a man.
The three persons do not exist side by side in the divine world.
We can compare them to the presence of different fields of knowledge in the mind of an individual: philosophy may be different from medicine, but it does not inhabit a separate sphere of consciousness. The different sciences pervade one another, fill the whole mind and yet remain distinct. (A History of God, Karen Armstrong, p. 117)
We have shifted from an emphasis rooted on a common factual confession that Jesus is the Christ to a Trinitarian emphasis on his deity.
Trinitarianism has been (re)born among us.
An incarnational theology, represented by Max Lucado in particular, dominates the current climate in our churches. Interestingly, this renewal has primarily developed along ethical and devotional / spiritual lines.
An emergent Trinitarianism is evident among us, not only among Churches of Christ, but also in other branches of the Stone-Campbell Movement.[36] Even though our biblical scholars are somewhat hesitant, this shift comes from several quarters.
First, the previous generation's defense of the deity of Christ forced some reflection along this line.
Alexander Campbell and most historical writers under stand that ideas were often personified. Thus, my spirit may be holy or unholy and she might get nasty. The Word of Charlie is that which proceeds out of the mouth of Charlie. However, the Word must begin with a thought as its father. Now how Campbell shows us the most universal view.
As a word is an exact image of an idea,
........... so is "The Word" an exact image of the invisible God.As a word cannot exist without an idea, nor an idea without a word,
........... so God never was without "The Word," nor "The Word" without God;or as a word is of equal age, or co-etaneous with its idea,
........... so "The Word" and God are co-eternal.And as an idea does not create its word nor a word its idea;
........... so God did not create "The Word," nor the "Word" God.Such a view does the language used by John suggest.
........... And to this do all the scriptures agree.For "The Word" was made flesh,
........... and in consequence of becoming incarnate,
........... he is styled the Son of God, the only Begotten of the Father.As from eternity God was manifest in and by "The Word,"
........... so now God is manifest in the flesh.As God was always with "The Word,"
........... so when "The Word" becomes flesh,
........... he is Emanuel, God with us.As God was never manifest but by "The Word,"
........... so the heavens and the earth, and all things were created by "The Word."God operting in the physical world is also called God's ARM but we don't get silly about that.
The confesson of the TRINITY is of course a Roman Catholic confession. But, surprise, surprise, the Catholics never CUT the Godhead into three members of the God family who are ONE simply because they are made of the same God Stuff and are a happy, agreeable Family of God.
The present heresy is, like the instrumental heresy, a repudiation of the Bible and the overwhelming view of those who LIVED BEFORE ME.
We can trust Rubel Shelly and John York or we can trust God who says "I am God and there is no other God beside me."
Rubel Shelly John York: Revealing himself in undifferentiated form as Yahweh in the Old Testament, he is known in Gospels and New Testament epistles as a single essence (i.e., level of being) engaged in both internal and external relationships as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. It is here that we often use the word "mystery" as we fumble to grasp the notion of a deity who is completely one but who is somehow three separate entities.
Hislop notes: "That object was to bind all mankind in blind and absolute submission to a hierarchy entirely dependent on the sovereigns of Babylon.
In the carrying out of this scheme, all knowledge, sacred and profane,
........... came to be monopolised by the priesthood,
........... who dealt it out to those who were initiated in the "Mysteries"exactly as they saw fit, according as the interests of the grand system of spiritual despotism they had to administer might seem to require.
"Thus the people, wherever the Babylonian system spread,
........... were bound neck and heel to the priests.
........... The priests were the only depositaries of religious knowledge;they only had the true tradition by which the writs and symbols of the public religion could be interpreted;
and without blind and implicit submission to them,
what was necessary for salvation could not be known."Craftily and gradually did Rome lay the foundation of its system of priestcraft, on which it was afterwards to rear so vast a superstructure. At its commencement, "Mystery" was stamped upon its system.Click for Hermes - Mercury the "New Hermeneutics"
The most notable promoting this heresy is Benny Hinn. Hank Hanegraaff, Christianity in Crises, documents the following of Benny Hinn:
"Man, I feel revelation knowledge already coming on me here. Lift your hands. Something new is going to happen here today. I felt it just as I walked down here. Holy Spirit, tale over in the name of Jesus...God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person; and He is a triune being Himself separate from the Son and Holy Ghost. Say, what did you say? Hear it, hear it, hear it. See, God the Father is a person. God the Son is a person. God the Holy Spirit is a person. But each one of them is a triune being by Himself. If I can shock you -- and maybe I should -- there's nine of them. Huh, what did you say? Let me explain: God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person with his own personal spirit, and with His own personal soul, and His own personal spirit-body. You say, Huh, I never heard that. Well you think you're in church this church to hear things you've heard for the last fifty years? You can't argue with the word, can you? It's all in the Word." Resource
Everyone has alway had a problem with 3 = 1. If it expressed the truth then we would accept the MYSTERY which God hid until the New Testament. But it does not: God is ONE in number but the WORD created all things. God conceived the THOUGHT and the thought gave birth to the WORD as Son. The Holy Spirit has always existed because IT is the mind or mental disposition of the Word Who has always been as much of God as His THOUGHT.
"Orthodox trinitarians deny tritheism, which is the belief in three gods. However, when asked to explain how there can be three distinct persons and yet only one God, they ultimately explain that the trinity is a mystery our finite human minds cannot comprehend fully. Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1965), I, 160; Stevens, p. 119; "Trinity, Holy," p. 295.
God is not three Gods but fills Three or More roles. As Shelly sees the LOGOS as a product of Greek Theology as John "took liberties" to write his gospel, the Old Testament uses the word DABAR which with a bit of translation shows that when God speaks in the world it is through His Word which is personified. Yet, as God is HIGHLY DIFFERNTIATED in the Old Testament, He is not dozens of PERSONS.
And he said, The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 2 Sam 22:2
The God (Elohim) of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence. 2 Sam 22:3
I will call on the Lord (Jehovah), who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies. 2 Sam 22:4
Based on this why isn't the FAMILY OF GODS 8 members or more? Below we have them "named."
By putting this passage in table form it becomes clear that God is not made up of six co-equal members of the Godhead called Rock, Shield, Horn, High Tower, Refuge and Savior:
Deliverer
Fortress
Rock
- ---And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:4 (Christ ia always evident in the O.T.)
Shield
- ---Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Ephesians 6:16
God is my
Horn
High Tower
Refuge
Saviour is YASHA
Joshua or Jesua is yÿhoÇwshuÇwa - yaÇshaý
God is my Jesus! (Zec 3)
But there has never been a scholar who would define JEHOVAH who is the One and Only true Elohim is ONE GOD and you deny it at your peril.Scriptures clearly say:
Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey. Deut 6:3
Hear, O Israel: The Lord (Jehovah) our God (Elohenu) is one Lord (Jehovah): Deut 6:4
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deut 6:5
Of all of the elohim, including Moses, Jehovah is the ONE true El.
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. Deuteronomy 32:39
And yet, as God speaks as His WORD personified, He prophesied that He would send His own ARM as the Intercessor:
And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. Is.59:16
God's Arm is not a separated member of the Family of God and therefore His Word is not separated. The Septuagint shows how God will destroy those who destroyed to the beat o instruments.
Must ye always rejoice, and go into my holy places continually, as they that keep a feast? and must ye go with a pipe, as those that rejoice into the mountain of the Lord, to the God of Israel Isaiah 30:29 LXX
and the Lord shall make his glorious voice to be heard and the wrath of his arm, to make a display with wrath and anger and devouring flame: he shall lighten terribly, and his wrath shall be as water and violent hail. Isaiah 30:30 LXX
For by the voice of the Lord the Assyrians shall be overcome, even by the stroke where with he shall smite them. Isaiah 30:31 LXX
And it shall happen to him from every side, that they from whom their hope of assistance was, in which he trusted, themselves shall war against him in turn with drums and with harp. Isaiah 30:32 LXX
For thou shalt be required before thy time: has it been prepared for thee also to reign? nay, God has prepared for thee a deep trench, wood piled fire and much wood: the wrath of the Lord shall be as a trench kindled with sulphur. Isaiah 30:33 LXX
O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God. Isaiah 40:9
Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.Is.40:10
He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young. Is.40:11
God's SON is his ARM, SHOULDER, SHIELD which intercedes between His Spirit nature and the world.
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind (spirit) in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his sons name, if thou canst tell? Prov 30:4
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Prov 30:5
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Prov 30:6
At the same time, people understood that if the pagan gods were supposed to live in a rock, Jehovah who was the One and only True El, could be said to be the True Rock because He could bring forth water and deliver His Word to mankind without having to spend a night sleeping on a rock table. The Babylonians believed that the gods or demons lived inside of the wind instruments and were its source of power.
"The Babylonian trinity was 'the Eternal Father, the Spirit of God incarnate in a human mother, and a Divine Son, the fruit of that incarnation." Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, 2nd ed. (Neptune, N.J.: Loizeaux Bras., 1959), pp. 16-19.
However, Yahweh is our source of breath and power:
The God is my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence. 2 Samuel 22:3
In the ancient view, you could beat your sword on your leather shield (drum) or your brass (cymbal) shield and the gods would come to your aid and the music would panic the enemy into fleeing. God could send wasps or a plague and you didn't have to gong or clang.
The horn or coronet was made like a crooked serpent and you could play music like a hissing sound and the gods would speak right out of the instrument which was an idol of the Babylon serpent god. However, the True God would work in the affairs of mankind without blowing on Him.
When the Babylonians "ascended" the tower of Babel and other high towers, they played loud music hoping to meet a god ascending and descending the ladder. When you got to the top, where the paid priest was your mediator, you could either attack or appease the god with music to force him to give you a good crop or more goats. God supplies all good things.
Whatever the pagan mind conceived of as power, God was its true source. The towers were the refuge to keep God from washing the people away again therefore God is our Refuge being the "walls of fire" of salvation and we do not need Cain, Jubal, Jabal, Tubal-Cain, Naamah or Nimrod to protect us from the wild animals.
My Rock
The Lord is (is One God but also in form of)
My Fortress and
My Deliverer 2 Samuel 22:2
Notice another trinity manifestation of the One Lord God.The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me, And His word was on my tongue. 2 Samuel 23:2
The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. 2 Samuel 23:3
In another passage we see five "beings" or "persons" speaking if we are inclined to ignore symbolic language:
The
Spirit (1)
Of the
Lord
Spoke
The
God (2)
Of
Israel
Said
The
Rock (3)
Of
Israel
Spake
The
One
enthroned in
Heaven
Laughs
The
Lord
(adonay)
-
Scoffs Psalm 2:4NIV
When the ONE GOD who is Spirit and therefore not separated into three SPIRIT makes Himself know in earthly activities it is the SPIRIT OF CHRIST.Jesus said that if you see me you see the Father and He said that the "another Comforter" will be Me. The "Lord" told Paul that "I am Jesus of Nazareth."
Please grasp that the problem arises from trying to make an eternal trinity out of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But, that has no Biblical or historical foundation.
First, God is infinite, invisible, incomprehensible Spirit to the human mind. That does not mean that God is a SUPER PERSON but that God is "wholly other" not like anything material.
However, God MANIFESTS Himself in three primary ways related to the triune nature of the human body, soul and Spirit.
Full invisible Deity
Manifestations (personae)
Father
God
Son
Holy Spirit
The Triune nature is not truly glimpsed as God, Jesus and Spirit but Father is God, Son is God and Spirit is God. Father, Son and Spirit are not names but Jesus is. In Hebrew Jesus or Joshua means Jehovah-Saves. As Jehovah was made known by various hyphenated names in the Old Testament, God of full DeityFor in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9
Jesus was born of Mary as "a body prepared for me" but Jesus as the Word WAS WITH GOD and WAS GOD. It was the Spirit of Christ in the prophets (1 Pet 1:11; Rev. 19:10).
However, when the people were all out of sorts about having to eat the body and drink the blood of "Jesus" He made it clear to those with ears that the
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63
If an infinite God can incarnate His Nature in a poor boy like Jesus then Jesus as FULL DEITY can incarnate His Spirit as THE MIND OF CHRIST in His Words. Jesus even said that the God-Job of judging people for eternity has been incarnated in His Words. If you don't think that He can do that then why believe that He can live within human flesh which He used as "clothing?"
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Jn.12:47
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.Jn.12:48
Rubel Shelly John York: Christians do not believe there are three Gods. That would be polytheism as opposed to monotheism. Orthodox Christians are staunchly monotheistic yet affirm that the God who is one in divine essence but three separate personalities. "God is one, and there is no God but the Holy Trinity; God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
There is a vast difference between saying that God was three "personalities" or in the trinitarian language three personae, and saying that God is three separated personal beings. I suppose all with their own spirit?
With rare exeption the formulation of attributes is not God, Son and Holy Spirit. Rather it is
Father (Thought)
God
Son (Word)
Spirit (Breath)
Rubel Shelly John York: There is no perfect analogy to express the divine nature, but neither are we left without hints and shadows.For example, if deity is a level of personal being higher than that of angel or human being,
it should no more be thought impossible for there to be separate personalities at that supreme level than at the lower levels of angel (e.g., Gabriel, Michael, et al.) or human (e.g., John, Rubel, et al.).
There is a big difference: God is God and angels are not. God is infinite in being and eternal in time and omnipresence. God is UNIQUE and He IS NOT just a notch up from the angels.
The order of created beings is graded from top to bottom: man is a little lower than angels. To make the analogy stick one has to define the trinity as GRADED IN LEVEL. There is no other way.
H. Leo Boles: Their Standing (status or rank) is always first, second and third. P. 20.
Therefore, when polytheists say that God is one they mean that they are all made of the same GOD STUFF.
God is uncreated and eternal but angels and all other beings are CREATURES. It is dangerous to try to understand a Holy (wholly) Spirit God by comparing Him mankind. God is "wholly other" and it is idolatry to try to create an earthly image other than that which God had created of Himself: Jesus Christ or Joshua or Jehovah- Saved.
Lucifer, is the harp- playing prostitute personified as the King/queen of Trye. Lucifer or Heylel may have been the highest. She presumed that God was just a little higher on the totem pole. Therefore, if this is true then it is pefectly logical for one RANK to try to ASCEND up to another level. But the Holy Spirit God who appeared as Jesus the Christ is infinitely higher than Lucifer.
Rubel and John might as well ask: "If I can jump 6 feet, how many jumps will it take to jump over the Grand Canyon?" The answer is obvious: the Canyon is infinitely beyond our jumping ability.
The TRITHEISM of Rubel Shelly has the "Father God and the Spirit God aceing out the little Son God to trick Him into dying for mankind."
The fact is that there CAN BE only one God and all else are creatures. The Word or Christ or Holy Spirit which indwelled Jesus Christ "the body prepared for me" was FULL DEITY Who made the initiative to LAY ASIDE the invisible nature of Deity and image Himself as a humble man who could not preach in any pulpit in the land. If Jesus was less than FULL DEITY then as "son" He must be younger and inferior to the rest of the Family of God.
Rubel Shelly John York: The essence that makes one an angel or a human is common, shared, and one; the human race is ultimately one (cf. Acts 17:26) though differentiated into many separate persons.
But, in TAKING LIBERTIES, Rubel takes too much. What Paul really said was:
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; Ac.17:26
God is not ONE in the collective sense: that is polytheism. Rather, God is NUMBERAL ONE. Just ONE and there are no others beside ME. God is never WE nor THEY but ME OR I.
In Neo-Calvinism: God is One, He is one just as three humans are one.
........... l That is, as three men are made of the same man stuff,
........... ........... God is one because all three persons are made of God stuff.In addition, three equals one because all are equal in power and glory. (See theWestminster Larger Catechism).
Rubel Shelly John York: Similarly, the essence of perfect holiness, perfect truth, and perfect love that makes one divine is common, shared,
and one; deity (i.e., Godhead) is ultimately and necessarily one though differentiated into three separate persons.
That means that GOD HAS NO CHOICE! Adam and Eve became ONE but they were two persons. God is not made in the image of Adam and Eve: God is NUMBERICALLY ONE.
Athenagoras the trinity: Chapter VIII.-Absurdities of Polytheism.
As regards, then, the doctrine that there was from the beginning one God, the Maker of this universe, consider it in this wise, that you may be acquainted with the argumentative grounds also of our faith.
........... If there were from the beginning two or more gods,
........... ........... they were either in one and the same place,
........... ........... or each of them separately in his own.In one and the same place they could not be.
For, if they are gods, they are not alike;
........... but because they are uncreated they are unlike:
........... for created things are like their patterns;
........... ........... but the uncreated are unlike,
........... ........... being neither produced from any one,
........... ........... nor formed after the pattern of any one.Hand and eye and foot are parts of one body, making up together one man: is God in this sense one?
........... And indeed Socrates was compounded and divided into parts,
........... just because he was created and perishable;
........... ........... but God is uncreated, and, impassible, and indivisible-
........... ........... does not, therefore, consist of parts.But if, on the contrary, each of them exists separately,
since He that made the world is above the things created, and about the things He has made and set in order,
where can the other or the rest be?For if the world, being made spherical, is confined within the circles of heaven,
and the Creator of the world is above the things created, managing that by His providential care of these,
what place is there for the second god, or for the other gods?
For he is not in the world, because it belongs to the other; nor about the world, for God the Maker of the world is above it.
But if he is neither in the world nor about the world (for all that surrounds it is occupied by this one ), where is he?
But the Son of God is the Logos (word) of the Father,
in idea and in operation;
for after the pattern of Him and by Him were all things made,
the Father and the Son being one.
And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of spirit,the understanding and reason (nous kai logoj) of the Father is the Son of God.
Shelly and York seem to say that God could not exist except in terms of humanity: the CREATOR cannot rise above the CREATURE.
God defines Himself many times as both the of or source and the by or means. For instance, God is the of and His Right Hand is His means:
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many, 1 Corinthians 8:5
But to us there is but one God,
........... the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and
........... one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we byIn Hebrew the One Lord (Jehovah) was the ONLY God (Elohim). Thomas exclaimed of Jesus in Whom dwelled full Deity: "My Lord and my God."
Paul says, in effect, Others might have many gods, but not Christians. Even we plan (of our spirit) and execute (by our hands) to accomplish a task. Isaiah prophesied of the composite nature of the One God:
For unto us a child (seed) is born,
unto us a son is given:Now, that is not two "people"-
and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God (El), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:7
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King |
Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel,
and his redeemer the Lord
of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and
beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6
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Mighty God |
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the
ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which
is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 1:8
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Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a
Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and
forgiveness of sins. Acts 5:31
And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. Is.59:16 |
The Nicean Creed and backup documents do not teach the trinity of separated persons. Of the Holy Spirit, like an afterthought, they said: "And we believe in the Holy Spirit" but it is not treated as a Divine Being. Click for the Nicean documents"We believe in one God,
........... the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible:-
........... and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God,
........... the only-begotten of the Father,that is of the substance of the Father; God of God and Light of light; true God of true God;
begotten, not made, consubstantialThus also the declaration that "the Son is consubstantial with the Father" having been discussed,
it was agreed that this must not be understood in a corporeal sense,
........... or in any way analogous to mortal creatures;inasmuch as it is neither by division of substance,
........... nor by abscission nor by any change of the Father's substance
........... and power, since the underived nature of the Father
........... is inconsistent with all these things.Even among the inventors of the word TRIAS there is no hint that God is separated into three PERSONS. I am a person but I am not God: my dog has personality but He is not God.
"He (Karl Rahner agreeing with Karl Barth) believes that in light of the modern development of the concept of person,
its unqualified use in the Trinitarian doctrine leads unmistakably to tritheism." Matei then quotes:
"There can be no doubt about it: speaking of three persons in God entails almost inevitably the danger (as a rule we try much too late to overcome it through explicit corrections) of believing that
there exists in God three distinct consciousnesses, spiritual vitalities, centers of activity, and so on.
"This danger is increased by the fact that, even in the usual presentation of the scholarly treatises on the Trinity, there is
"first developed a concept of 'person' derived from experience and philosophy,
........... independently of the doctrine of the Trinity as found in revelation
........... and of the history of this doctrine."Next this concept is applied to God, and thus it is demonstrated that there are three such persons in God. " (Eugen Matei, Fuller. THE CONCEPT OF 'PERSON' IN TRINITARIAN CONTEXT: HISTORICAL AND ECUMENICAL PERSPECTIVES)
Rubel Shelly John York: Interestingly, marriage also gives a glimpse into the correct concept of trinitarianism. A human male and a human female are distinct personalities, minds, and bodies. Yet communication, love, and covenanting are possible between them because of the common essence (i.e., humanity) they share. In marriage, two personalities become one in a relationship of attention and mutual care.
That means that the thre God Persons are made out of the same GOD STUFF. When Adam and Eve became ONE FLESH we understand that they consumated their marriage. However, after this event Adam and Eve were still SEPARATED persons (a person is a peaple). They never became ONE PERSON.
God is not made in the image of man
Tri-theists claim that God is one only in the sense that Adam and Eve were one. They were one flesh which describes the sexual unity of male and female. Therefore, God can be one god and three persons at the same time. No one can explain this.
However, Adam, the man, was also alone:
And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. Genesis 2:18
God was never alone: He always had His Word and his Breath (Spirit) With Him. However, Adam was ONE and alone.
When Adam was created in the image of God he was created alone. He was one person and not triplets. However, he had body, soul and spirit which are three manifestations of the one life.
To draw the analogy means that God was ONE meaning ALONE. However, because God needs love (He IS love) Trithism says that God GENERATED or created the Son or Word as another person to supply friendship. If God lives eternally just WHEN did God get lonely and decide to take a bride and beget a Son just as Adam and Eve became One.
When God decided to make a help meet for Adam, it was a second person who could stand opposite, stand side-by-side or even hold conferences with Him.
The claim that the three "persons" of the "god family" are one just as Adam and Eve were one gets pretty close to blasphemy. This demands that God have a "help meet" for Him to create and run the world. In fact, Boles claims that Father and Son created a totally worthless thing and creation was not complete until the third person, the Holy Spirit, acted. However, look at the meaning of meet which is never used of God:
Neged (h5048) neh'-ghed; from 5046; a front, i. e. part opposite; spec. a counterpart, or mate; usually (adv., espec., with prep.) over against or before: - about, (over) against, * aloof, * far (off), * from, over, presence, * other side, sight, * to view.
Nagad (h5046) naw-gad'; a prim. root; prop. to front, i. e. stand boldly out opposite; by impl. (causat.), to manifest; fig. to announce (always by word of mouth to one present); spec. to expose, predict, explain, praise: - bewray, * certainly, certify, declare (-ing), denounce, expound, * fully, messenger, plainly, profess, rehearse, report, shew (forth), speak, * surely, tell, utter.
God was not face to face as a trinity of People
Adam was alone just as God was alone.
There was one God and one Adam made in God's image with
........... (1) body or power over the physical world,
........... (2) life and mind and
........... (3) a spirit or mental disposition.God gave Adam a mate but he was always one person and she was one person. God never said that the two persons of Adam and Eve would become one person. Rather, he was alone until God created Eve. If this explains God then God was alone until He created the Word. But the Word is another term to explain the One godhead as He projects His voice and creative power into the visible world of mankind.
Now, Adam plus Eve is 1 + 1 = 2 people. Scripture never says that they were one Being but one flesh:
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Genesis 2:24
One flesh means sexual intercourse. It does speak of God or personhood:
Basar (h1320) baw-sawr'; from 1319; flesh (from its freshness); by extens. body, person; also (by euphem.) the pudenda of a man: - body, [fat, lean] flesh [-ed], kin, [man-] kind, / nakedness, self, skin.
Rubel Shelly John York: These two metaphors point us in the right direction for grasping a critical truth about One God in Three Persons. That critical truth is belonging.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit exist as a community
in which the activity of positive relationships
presume and require communication, exchange, and regard.H. Leo Boles and our parenthesis:
H. Leo Boles: These (three) members ( parts, components, divisions, portions) of the Godhead held a council (committee meeting) at the creation of man; they are divine, one in substance, purpose, and design; yet they are three distinct (different, disunited, dispersed) persons and function (capacity, utility) in the work of creation. Boles, H. Leo, The Holy Spirit, Gospel Advocate p. 46
H. Leo Boles and the Gospel Advocate: The three are distinctly (clearly, sharply, plainly) separate beings (persons, mankind, humanity, man, mortality). However, they are one (single, sole, solitary, unique) because they share the same purposes, intentions and desires. The Godhead is one in the same way that a husband and wife are one (Mal 2:14-15) (H. Leo Boles in Sept. 1, 1966, p. 2, Fall Quarter, Foundations, Gospel Advocate.)
One shall say, I am the Lords; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the Lord (Jehovah), and surname himself by the name of Israel. Isa 44:5
Thus saith
........... the Lord (Jehovah)
........... ........... the King of Israel,
........... ...................... and
........... ........... his redeemer the Lord of hosts;I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isa 44:6
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This is parallel to the idea of GOD as Deity who MANIFESTS Himself as Lord or Ruler:
To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Tit 1:4
When Thomas touched the risen Jesus there were not TWO persons in his presence when he grasp that Jesus was bott Lord AND God:
........... And Thomas answered and said unto him,
........... ........... My Lord
........... ........... ........... and
........... ........... my God. Jn.20:28No that Shelly has CREATED God into a COMMUNITY we can circle our reason:
Rubel Shelly John York: The single defining relationship of divine community is love -- so much so that John can declare "God is love" (1 John 4:8).
Trinity is the perfect community in which the ongoing dynamic exchange among persons is what gives the community its very identity.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are so intertwined in a communion of love that one cannot be identified without the others.
This FAMILY absolutely leads to defining the Spirit as THE MOTHER much like Sophia or WISDOM defined by Solomon. Thus, the true Catholic trinity is Father, Mother and little infant son. This is quite identical to the BABYLONIAN triad from which Shelly got his views.
I believe that Jesus promised to build His Ekklesia or Synagogue. That means that the defining relationship of SCHOOL is DISCIPLESHIP. Jesus didn't say "go make worshipers" but "go make disciples." Only those who GIVE HEED to Him through His word worship IN THE PLACE OF THE SPIRIT OR MIND.
You should not fall for the premis above that God is GRADED along with angels and man. God is pure or Holy (wholly) Spirit. He fills the universe. He is not a person in His nature and therefore need no other PERSONS to keep Him from being perfect. This view is much like Adam who is the Mormon "god of this world."
The UNIVERSAL MESSAGE is that no one ever believed that God was three persons meaning people. Rather, in coming to the AID OF GOD they used the word "trias" to DEFEAT the notion of Christ as a creature.
> The Nicean motive was NOT to establish the trinity as a central doctrine taught by the Bible.
> Rather, Arius taught that Christ and the Spirit were CREATED beings and were not therefore God.
> Nicea was simply to defend THE CENTRAL FAITH that Jesus was full Deity.
"When the Tritheist speaks of unity, he is referring only to unity of purpose, aim, and endeavor.
The trinity of the Godhead is not a divine partnership (or family) in which each personality is a distinct essence, apart from the agreed unity. The unity exists within the One eternal essence. (One person three manifestations 1Ti 3:16). The Tritheist sect first appeared in the sixth century, and taught that Father, Son, and Spirit were co-equal, distinct Beings, united by one common will and purpose. Turner/Myers, The Godhead, p. 40
"But in God there are not three individuals alongside of, and separate from, one another, but only personal self-distinctions within Divine essence, which is not only generically, but numerically, one. (Strong, Systematic Theology, p; 244f. (Armstrong, Tillich and others refuted heresy from 19th century liberalism).
We suggest an exercise: find the Biblical or Historical evidence that the ONE God is ever separated into three beings. When Jesus was on earth He declared that both the Father and Spirit indwelled Him. In fact, even in His humanity, the FATHER (thought) spoke through the SON (Word) and all trinitarians identify the SPIRIT as the BREATH which propels the Word through the lips or "double edged sword."
Rubel Shelly can abandon the epistles without a blink because Karl Barth or someone has convinced him that John wrote that which had been sieved from philosophy and his own personal agenda. He assuredly got neither the trinity of separated persons nor Narrative Theology from the Bible or church historians.
John Mark Hicks: Third, the stress on incarnational theology (particularly within missiology and ethics) has reaffirmed that God was really among us as Immanuel.
But, the fully come in the flesh said: "Where two or three are gathered together there will I be in the midst of you." When you forget that and hire musical worship facilitators to "lead the audience into the presence of God" you have denied a primary meaning of "gospel."
Dostoevsky explains that when Jesus comes in our midst He will not take the HOLY PLACE of pulpit but He will be out with suffering humanity. When we see Jesus incarnated it will be in the fleshly form of some old lady needing a cup of cold water on a hot day when the air conditioner quits. Jesus will never be seen with the singers and clappers who mocked him to death with that old paganism.
John Mark Hicks: Fourth, postmodern audiences yearn to hear about community, empathy and relationality which incarnational emphases address.
I suppose that is because they think of God as "one of us" except bigger and with more power.
By abandoning the work of Christ the Holy Spirit in inspiring the Apostles, and throwing away all but the CORE GOSPEL the postmodern insanity is totally ABANDONED CHILDREN. Therefore, the only option is to convince us that THEY hear the audible voice of the Spirit revealing new truth. The notion of a separated God of three independant PERSONS is a strong delusion for those who no longer "teach the Word as it has been taught."
Rubel Shelly John York: In the Trinity, individuality is real. Each person is distinct from the other,
........... but it is the mutual submission and reciprocity in love that is their communion.It is the triune God who reveals the goal toward which a spiritual community -- whether church or family -- strives.
It is the understanding of unity that is not uniformity, self-giving that is not diminishment, and love as surrender that is not loss that challenges the people of God to live as their social reality what the world cannot fathom in its defensive selfishness.
That means that if the GODS submit to one another then YOU must submit to ME. How do I know that? Because Rubel claims that ministers are best equipped to run the church and the elders must "shepherd" the ministers. Rubel gets paid and the others do not. Rubel runs the meetings and others do not. Rubel does the public "taking liberties" and "narrating" the sermons and others do not.
If God is like the ideal of the postmodern church then things just won't work unless we gain the mutual submission (I get my way) in a secular church organization: commercial to the bones. In the new church, however, there is a pyramid of power: everyone must submit to the decision of the "leadership" and we know that this means the senior "pastor" who is now shephered by the elders so that he can be THE leader.
"The mass meeting is also necessary for the reason that in it the individual, who at first while becoming a supporter of a young movement,
feels lonely and easily succumbs to the fear of being alone, for the first time gets the picture of a larger community, which in most people has a strengthening, encouraging effect.
"The same man, within a company or a battalion, surrounded by all his comrades, would set out on an attack with a lighter heart than if left entirely on his own.
In the crowd he always feels somewhat sheltered, even if a thousand reasons actually argue against it.
"But the community of the great demonstration not only strengthens the individual, it also unites and helps to create an esprit de corps.
"The man who is exposed to grave tribulations, as the first advocate of a new doctrine in his factory or workshop,
absolutely needs that strengthening which lies in the conviction of being a member and fighter in a great comprehensive body.
Shelly says that God absolutely requires other Gods to relive the discomfort of being along. This has always been used by tyrants to create a GROUP MIND made up of intellectual "leaders" and the emotional "human material." Thus, Hitler would say that you might get along without God but you deed the COMMUNITY OF THE GREAT DEMONSTRATION to be complete: sure, even God couldn't get by without being in COMMUNITY.
Note that in the postmodern new form religion, many will be attracted to their old Christian religion. Therefore, the first step is to create a sense of GRAVE TRIBULATIONS by a water drip of false charges against the old church order. This is idealized as creating a sense of schizophrenia to deconstruct before you rebuild on the ashes.
"And he obtains an impression of this body for the first time in the mass demonstration. When from his little workshop or big factory, in which he feels very small,
he steps for the first time into a mass meeting and has thousands and thousands of people of the same opinions around him, when,
as a seeker, (Als Suchender.' A Wagnerian phrase, which Hitler was apparently determined to use at all costs)
he is swept away by three or four thousand others into the mighty effect of suggestive intoxication and enthusiasm,
[Enthusiasm or exhilaration is a favorite Shelly word]
"when the visible success and agreement of thousands confirm to him
........... the rightness of the new doctrine and for the first time
........... arouse doubt in the truth of his previous conviction -then he himself has succumbed to the magic influence of what we designate as 'mass suggestion.'
The will, the longing, and also the power of thousands are accumulated in every individual. The man who enters such a meeting doubting and wavering leaves it inwardly reinforced:
........... he has become a link in the community.The National Socialist movement must never forget this and in particular
it must never let itself be influenced by those bourgeois SIMPLETONS who know everything better,
but who nevertheless have gambled away a great state including their own existence and the RULE of their CLASS.
Hitler depended almost totally on music which would be popular in churches. Lucian of Samosata wrote of Alexander the Oracle Monger.
"Alexander, on the other hand, preferred his native place, urging very truly that an enterprise like theirs required congenial soil to give it a start,
in the shape of 'fat-heads' and simpletons; that was a fair description, he said, of the Paphlagonians beyond Abonutichus;
they were mostly superstitious and well-to-do; one had only to go there with someone to play the flute, the tambourine, or the cymbals, set the proverbial mantic sieve a-spinning, and there they would all be gaping as if he were a god from heaven.
When God returned on Pentecost in invisible, Spirit form the apostles began to speak. They did not sing, dance, clap their hands or otherwise imitate the gone-made pagans. Therefore, God Incarnated his return as Comforter in Words which teach and comfort.
John Mark Hicks: Second, the renewal of Trinitarianism in this century (beginning with Karl Barth) has filtered down to our educators and trained ministers.
Whoa! It didn't filter down from Christ the Spirit: it filtered down from Karl Bath.
What John Mark Hicks seems to be saying is that the quite unique revival of a trinitarianism which never truly existed among the scholars, has FILTERED DOWN from Karl Barth and not from the Word of God!
However, the doctrine of the Trinity slipped in which scholars were trying to defeat the view that Christ was not deity:
"This conclusion is necessary because the doctrine of the Trinity had to be stated by the Athanasians in order to defeat the Arian position of the creation of Christ based upon the various proof texts such as Hebrews 3:2, Proverbs 8:22, John 16:28; 20:17, Ephesians 4:4-6 and Revelation 3:14; 4:11.
The UNIVERSAL MESSAGE is that no one ever believed that God was three persons meaning people. Rather, in coming to the AID OF GOD they used the word "trias" to DEFEAT the notion of Christ as a creature.
Similarly Karl Barth held the view that
"The Bible lacks the express declaration that the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence and therefore in an equal sense God Himself.
And the other express declaration is also lacking that God is God thus and only thus, i.e., as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These two express declarations which go beyond the witness of the Bible are the twofold content of the Church doctrine of the Trinity (Doctrine of the Word of God, p. 437. Also quoted by George L. Johnson in Is God a Trinity?, WCG, USA, 1973, p. 32).
"Judaism, Islam and rational Theism are Unitarian.
On the other hand,
........... we must honestly admit thatthe doctrine of the Trinity did not form part of the early Christian - New Testament - message,
nor has it ever been a central article of faith in the religious life of the Christian Church as a whole, at any period in its history.
Thus we are forced to ask: Is this truth the centre of Christian theology, but not the centre of the Christian Faith? Is such a discrepancy between faith and theology possible?
Or, is this due to an erroneous development in the formation of the doctrine of the Church as a whole?
Certainly, it cannot be denied that not only the word "Trinity", but even the explicit idea of the Trinity is absent from the apostolic witness to the faith; it is equally certain and incontestable that the best theological tradition, with one accord, clearly points to the Trinity as its centre (ibid., p. 206).
I can tell you exactly where the Triad of God came from: Babylon. Then various levels or generations of trinity of father, mother and itty bitty baby just evolved like all of the ORDERS of people.
So utterly idolatrous was the Babylonian recognition of the Divine unity, that Jehovah, the Living God, severely condemned His own people for giving any countenance to it: "They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens, after the rites of the ONLY ONE, * eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together" (Isa 66:17).
* The words in our translation are, "behind one tree," but there is no word in the original for "tree"; and it is admitted by Lowth, and the best orientalists, that the rendering should be, "after the rites of Achad," i.e. "The Only One." I am aware that some object to making "Achad" signify, "The Only One," on the ground that it wants the article.
But how little weight is in this, may be seen from the fact that it is this very term "Achad," and that without the article, that is used in Deuteronomy, when the Unity of the Godhead is asserted in the most emphatic manner, "Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah," i.e., "only Jehovah." When it is intended to assert the Unity of the Godhead in the strongest possible manner, the Babylonians used the term "Adad." Macrobii Saturnalia.
In the unity of that one Only God of the Babylonians, there were three persons, and to symbolise that doctrine of the Trinity, they employed, as the discoveries of Layard prove, the equilateral triangle, just as it is well known the Romish Church does at this day. *
* LAYARD's Babylon and Nineveh. The Egyptians also used the triangle as a symbol of their "triform divinity."
In both cases such a comparison is most degrading to the King Eternal, and is fitted utterly to pervert the minds of those who contemplate it, as if there was or could be any similitude between such a figure and Him who hath said,
"To whom will ye liken God, and what likeness will ye compare unto Him?"
The fatal MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai was under the symbol of the golden Calves (elohim or gods plural). The idol represented the real Apis real calves in Egypt. These, in turn represented the trinity or FAMILY OF GOD. Remember that the people said "make us gods." The triads were always worshiped with music.
Rubel Shelly John York: Because God is the social Trinity, a plurality in unity, the ideal for humankind does not focus on solitary persons, but on persons-in-community. God intends that we reflect his nature in our lives. This is only possible, however, as we move out of our isolation and into relationships with others. The ethical life, therefore, is the life-in-relationship, or the life-in-community. [Stanley J. Grenz, Theology for the Community of God (Nashville: Broadman & Holman, 1994), p. 98.] What Grenz affirms about the ethical life of God's people is even more fundamentally true of the worshipful life of the bride of Christ.
Hmm! Let's test that: next Sunday: let one of the Deacons who is defined by Paul and church history as one of the TEACHING orders in the church deliver the "sermon." How can this be true if the MINISTER is by training and charisma fitted to be THE leader in the church when God ordained the elders who hires hirelings?
When Jesus prayed, he left the disciples and went off to Himself. When He spoke of prayer He insisted that we pray in our CLOSET. This is the innermost, silent and dark place of the dwelling as the SOURCE of food. Similar, in many ways, to the Mind or Most Holy Place. Jesus said that this is the ONLY place we worship God in spirit (mind) and in truth. Jesus insisted that we distribut our alms secretly and alone.
Church is not a community or COMMUNE. It is not the central headquarters much like the temple at the top of the towers of Babylon. Church is a school of the Bible and for showing forth the agony of Christ's death. Then, people leave to their private lives however they wish to order it: they do not need a professional to plan how they are going to spend every waking hour. The Family of God conjures up the hippie era which is also the source of the New Style Musical Worship.
For our universe and heaven, Jesus Christ is the name of God: Jehovah- Saves. All authority is vested in Jesus Christ because He appeared as Father, Son and Spirit. His very clear mandate made clearer by Paul and the early church is that the evangelist does not hang around and PLAN COMMUNITY.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt 28:19
Name or authority is just ONE NAME. Therefore, Father, Son and Spirit are not names of the Family of God. Peter fully grasped this as did the rest of the Bible and early church history. Jehovah- Saved is the name of the Old Testament Jehovvah which it has been confessed was not seen as a trinity of Gods. There is only ONE God so the same Jehovah- Saves has only one identifier. Peter didn't repeat a FORMULA but baptized believers in the name of Jesus Christ:
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38
If Jesus is not the Name (singular) of full Deity then the Pentecost baptism did not have the FULL AUTHORITY of Deity to back it up.
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. Acts 4:10
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Acts 4:11
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Ac.4:12
Lucifer was a creature but possibly the highest. He/she tried to take over the rule of both heaven and earth from God. Man, on the other hand, was made "a little lower than the angels." That is, he is the lowest level of creature. Therefore, God worked through the man Jesus of Nazareth to defeat Satan or Lucifer. Only those who rest 100% on the SON as man can participate in the warfare against Lucifer.
Lucifer wants you to know that he is one of the god levels. In fact, as Zoe, she created Jehovah. Furthermore because little Jehovah figured out how to APPEASE Sophia and Zoe He was elevated but remained the praise singer of Zoe the Mother of the Gods.
The LEVELS of Godhood is a subtle attempt to insert ZOE or Eve or Mary as the MOTHER OF THE GODS. Therefore, when you see people trying to drive a wedge between the LEVELS OF GODHOOD you can be assured that the false teacher also wants some room up there.
Wind, string and percussion instruments were brought with Lucifer in the garden of Eden. She/he therefore wholly seduced Eve in a sexual sense. As the serpent she was Sophia and as her daughter she was Zoe the "beast" and female instructing principle as seen in the Babylonian myths and later Gnostic teaching and today's assault upon Jesus Christ.
In the modern "musical praise teams" the singers and or musicians are chosen to "lead you into the presence of God." They are defacto replacements of Jesus Christ Who is God and therefore the only One capable of being the Mediator. The praise songs are effeminate and erotic and therefore a product of Lucifer, the harp- playing prostitute.
The trinity of persons is the only way SHE can force her way into leadership roles to emasculate male leadership and collect those marked by music.
There is, therefore, an urgency to retire both Father and Son back to the "throne." That leaves their written witness outmoded by "postmodern - post sanity" views among the scholars. This then frees the way to ascend above the work of Father and Son and rest totally upon the imagined Holy Spirit person who has replaced Jesus for this the dispensation of the Spirit. In their view--the neo-Catholic view-the Holy Spirit must be FEMININE. Therefore, the path for Lucifer is cleared. However, the dove was the symbol of the MOTHER OF THE GODS. At the baptism of Jesus, the dove descended on Him and the pronouncement was made that God is FATHER and His Word or Voice is SON. The voice of the "holy spirit person" is psychological violence or cunning to make room for the eternally- recognized perverted or parasite "occupations" in the ethical mainstream. The end time religion is of the same Babylon Harlot. She too was personified as Lucifer. But she rested for awhile on a bed of maggots along with her harps and harpists.
By claiming to have ONE of the family of God in their carnal bodies it is possible to use psychological violence to overpower those who still depend on the words of Christ the Spirit in both testaments.
The believer who has risen above his carnal senses where Lucifer, the harp-playing prostitute attacks, puts his trust in Jesus alone who is God Alone. This means that our life is not filled with enraptured (raped) "worship" rituals. The real worship is in the PLACE of the human spirit where speakers and musicians cannot go. It is dangerous to associate with people who believe they can lead you into God's presence in a "spiritist" sense rather than into his self-sacrificing role of the One and Only Master Teacher.
Worship enables people in the image of God to be self-giving by showing both devotion to God and dedication to their neighbors. It isn't correct to say that all of life is worship. Some of life is dull routine, some is warfare against our souls by the Prince of Darkness, and some is participation in worship. What the all-life-is-worship theme is likely attempting to formulate, however, is correct. A life that is authentically worshipful bubbles up and spills over into every relationship and activity. All things are sanctified to the Lord because of that spirit.
Jesus never prescribed public "worship." In fact, in standing up to read and then sitting down to discuss or dialog he repudiated the notion of the pulpit. He made giving a secret thing and paid the temple tax. He consigned and modelled prayer is in the private places or in spirit. He instituted the Lord's Supper as a way to show forth (agonize) His death. He had Paul prescribe TEACHING the inspired Word and not singing secular tunes. Paul said that if we want to find Jesus we will have to go "outside the city" or the CAMP. Therefore, what we do is not AN IMAGE OR MODEL of what God wants for the individual. This is idolatry.
Paul never defines worship in the Shelly sense of listening to a sermon as "an act of worship." Gulp. Paul said that we should preach one to another using "that which is written" as the only way to glorify God.
We believe Jesus who said that worship doesn't bubble up like new wine in a new wineskin. Rather, it is the sober retreat to the quiet places where we meet God in our own. Paul said that the new worship of the circumcision was IN THE SPIRIT. That is a place and not a fermenting wine vat.
Romans 15 which defines the synagogue as a place for "unity in diversity" absolutely repudiates anything which would create spiritual anxiety. This is because Jesus died to remove the parasites and let us quietyly "glorify God with one mind and one voice using that which is written." Therefore, BUBBLING UP is anti-school of the Bible and therefore anti-Christ.
When Jesus accused that society of children "piping" hoping that He would sing and dance, He pointed us to the "god of the new wineskin, Dionysus." The word CHILDREN is pais which was a metaphor for ampelou p., of wine. They were leaders of the chorêgein. This has the similar meaning of:
The sOPHISts were and are the OPHIS or serpent enchanters. In the garden of Eden the serpent was also a MUSICAL ENCHANTER.
Ophis a serpent, snake, Il., Hdt., Trag.:--metaph., ptênon ophin, of an arrow, Aesch. [The first syll. is sometimes made long, when it was pronounced (and perh. ought to be written) opphis, v. ocheô.]
They were leaders of the kômôidois which was the naked, drunken perverted music-induced song and dance they hoped Jesus would perform
Rhetoricians, Sophists, Singers and Musicians were all associated with this ENCHANTMENT or SOOTHSAYING which, like the witch of Endor and her old wineskin, which mediated the SPIRIT for those less fortunate. In the Greek texts some are identified with the craftsmen or TECHNE who will go back into hell with the musicians and instrumentalists (Rev. 18). In all cases they were identified as SPONGERS or PARASITES.
If Rubel Shelly and John York could IMPROVIZE a "worship ritual" which is the opertive word for the SYNAGOGUE or "School of the Bible" then Jesus died in vain. Here is what brings Light but only if "it is taught as it has been taught." There is not a remote hint that worship in the pagan musical sense brings us closer to God:
Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. 2 Pet 1:14
Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things alway in remembrance. 2 Pet 1: 15
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Pet 1: 16
After Christ returned to sit down as the RIGHT ARM and sit down, logically, at the Right of the Father. When He ascended He returned as ANOTHER COMFORTER even as He had promised in John 14:16-8. The ARM or WORD sat down at the right of the glory. Therefore, when He returned as HOLY SPIRIT at Pentecost He revealed His Glory primarily in His revealed Word. If you minimize that Word then you lose both the Father and Son.
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Pet 1: 17
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Pet 1: 18
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto
ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Pet 1: 19Assuredly there are few, rare pulpits which are devoted to Paul's unique worship word which is to GIVE HEED TO THE WORDS OF CHRIST. They are Spirit and they are life and they need no further expounding.
How is the Word who IS God going to shine in your life as the true DAY STAR when Lucifer imposes herself as the fallen day star? She can always be seen as the harp- playing and singing prostitute. The Old Testament makes it clear that music is to SILENCE the words of Christ the SON of the FATHER God.
Both Peter and Paul warned that the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE worships in the sense of GIVING HEED to Christ by giving heed to His Words because (1) it is inspired and you cannot privately interprete or FURTHER EXPOUND the Word unless you claim to be God, and (2) when you open the assembly (synagogue) up to the MANY professionals you assuredly will quickl attract an ANGEL OF LIGHT from the Chief Light Bulb, Lucifer, the harp playing prostitute.
Rubel Shelly John York: Worship reminds the worshippers who they are and whose they are. We no longer belong to ourselves but to Christ. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me," proclaimed Paul. "And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." (Gal. 2:19b-20). That being the case, we could not be surprised at this: "So then, whenever we have an opportunity, let us work for the good of all, and especially for those of the family of faith" (Gal. 6:10).
Paul's unique WORSHIP word meant to GIVE HEED to the Word of Christ. The assembly was a synagogue or school of the Bible and of Christ. It had no rituals. Even the Lord's Supper was to show forth or to PREACH the death of Christ. Worship is in the PLACE of the human spirit which is the only Place Christ promised to give heed to our worship as it is devoted to the WORD which is the SPIRIT OF TRUTH.
The symbolism of the Tabernacle and later the Temple as a perverted image was three-fold. First, the court yard was where the TYPES of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ were slaughtered. Among the smoke, smell of flesh, blood, dung, swarms of flies and cries of innocent lambs took place. The Levitical "musicians" did not make music but a loud crashing sound. Their "service" was not called worship but "hard bondage" much like the word for Abaddon. They did not serve God but the priests. In prophecy and fulfillment the musical mockers would attack Jesus Christ.
The Holy Place was a type of the church or body of Christ and one could enter only after being washed in the laver. The Holy Place symbolized the Menorah or seven spirits of God (Isaian 11:1-4), the table of fellowship and the incense altar where there was absoute silence. No one but the elder who read the Word from cover to cover was allowed to stand in the Synagogue. There was no music and "no praise service in the synagogue." A professional rhetorician or sophist which are defined as PARASITES who entered the type of the church of Christ would be executed even in the carnal type.
The Most Holy Place was the place of coming before the throne of God. In fulfillment worship according to Jesus was to be ONLY in the PLACE of the human spirit as it gives heed to the Truth or Words of God. Worship was in darkness and silence as Jesus insisted that our prayers (incense) be offered in the closed as the innermost, dark, quiet and safe place of the house.
Paul defines worship in the assembly or synagogue ONLY as giving heed to Christ by giving heed to the Word. That is because Jesus built a SYNAGOGUE and not a pagan worship center. Church is SCHOOL OF THE WORD and one who dares cut and paste the already preached sermons and already composed songs of Christ is the enemy of Christ. Worship is, therefore, the cover up to keep people's mind off the WORD as Jesus inspired it. Standing between God and Man is the Lucifer Principle.
Rubel Shelly John York: When the church is together in her corporate worship,
the proclaimed (i.e., preaching Scripture)
and symbolized (i.e., eating the Lord's Supper) word
challenges the bride not only to be faithful to her husband but to make her transformed nature manifest in serving those in the community.We thought that the Lord's Supper was to SHOW FORTH or preach the death of Jesus Christ.. Proclaim is "kerusso" which does not identify the elder or synagogue reader. Rather, he is a herald or public crier the publisher of the gospel. He has a GO button and he does not remain to count baptisms or BUILD A SECULAR CITY.
Therefore, whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops. Lu.12:3
Proclaiming or heralding means to take the message out to the lost without tampering or sermonizing the message. In those days tampering with the message would get you killed.
Preaching by the performing kind is NOT proclaiming Scripture. It is proclaiming the preacher and the only option is to GIVE HEED to the preacher or musicians who stand between the "audience" an God. The word is teach and dialog and PREACHING is out into the world and not among better Bible scholars. Preaching was one of the FIRST HERESIES and it was introduced solely to gain applause for the rhetorician or Sophist (parasites in the Greek world) because it mishandled the Word of God.
Jesus didn't say: "I will build my church" but "I will build my ekklesia or synagogue." There was no true preaching in the Synagogue: Jesus stood up to read the SCRIPTURES to GIVE HEED to God and had the uncommon decency to sit down and DIALOG. Paul defined the PREACHING ROLE in Romans 15 which repudiates any creation of spiritual anxiety or giving pleasure. The synagogue task is to act like Christ and "glorify God with one voice" by "speaking that which is written." The other so-called "singing" passages in Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3 demand that we TEACH or PREACH to one another using the Spirit or Word of Christ.
The Lord's Supper was to SHOW FORTH or preach the death of Christ. When Jesus joins us in singing it is not happy-clappy, singing erotic praise songs but participating on a weekly basis the death of Christ with no remote hint
Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise (hymn) unto thee. Heb 2:12
Declare in Greek is:
Apagello (g518) ap-ang-el'-lo; from 575 and the base of 32; to announce: - bring word (again), declare, report, shew (again), tell.
Aggelos (g32) ang'-el-os; from aggello, [prob. der. from 71; comp. 34] (to bring tidings); a messenger; esp. an "angel"; by impl. a pastor: - angel, messenger
This does not mean to entertain but to do the work of an evangelist: Speak or Preach to one another:
Euaggelizo (g2097) yoo-ang-ghel-id'-zo; from 2095 and 32; to announce good news ("evangelize") espec. the gospel: - declare, bring (declare, show) glad (good) tidings, preach (the gospel).
An angel is a messenger. The GOOD news when WROUGHT becaue the ev-angel. A messenger who rushed across rivers and mountains to bring news of victory was an evangelist. Jesus Christ, the Angel of the Old Testament endured great agony in order to "sing to the Gentiles."
Sing is not MUSIC.
Apalgeo (g524) ap-alg-eh'-o; from 575 and algeo (to smart); to grieve out, i.e. become apathetic: - be past feeling
Anah (h578) aw-naw'; a prim. root; to groan: - lament, mourn.
And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Luke 22:44
Agonia (g74) ag-o-nee'-ah; from 73; a struggle (prop. the state), i.e. (fig.) anguish: - agony.
Rubel Shelly John York: The love that exists freely as self-giving within the Trinity becomes the model for how the individuals who are one in Christ will love one another.
The corporate assembly overflows into the daily life experience of all who are in that relationship. Such love blesses even the larger community around that church. The bride's radiance turns heads to her bridegroom, and the world is captivated by the beauty of God's love that is being lived out in the church.
John Mark Hicks: Max Lucado, however, has been the most influential of all. His Christology is pervasive in our pulpits, our pews and throughout evangelical culture. His recent
........... Just Like Jesus
represents his ethical reflection,[45] but his God Came Near, one of his first books, reveals his Christological presuppositions.[46]His theology seems to lack any significant kenosis. Instead, Mary "knows she is holding God."[47] He is the "infant-God" to whom Mary prays.[48] His Jesus counts the stars as he lies in his crib and remembers his creative work. Mary is tempted to call him "Father."[49]
This type of incarnational theology tends to undermine the humanity of Jesus
........... because it assumes that Jesus did not really identify with the human psyche.The divine mind informs and empowers the human life of Jesus in such a way that he is no longer a genuine model for struggling Christians.
I think his Christology needs a good dose of the incarnation as a participation in fallenness where Jesus assumes fallen human nature, struggles with sin and shares our weaknesses.[50]
In other words, Lucado's Johannine Christology needs to be tempered with the Christology of the synoptics and Hebrews.
Contrary to Doug's reading,
I believe Lucado ultimately subsumes the human under the divine. John Mark Hicks, Lipscomb. Reviewing Doug FosterAnd Paul wrote:
Your attitude should be the kind that was shown us by Jesus Christ, Phil 2:5LIV
........... who, though he was God, did not demand and cling to his rights as God, Phil 2: 6
........... ........... but laid aside his mighty power and glory,
........... ........... taking the disguise of a slave and becoming like men. Phil 2:7And he humbled himself even further, going so far as actually to die a criminal's death on a cross. Phil 2: 8
Yet it was because of this that God raised him up to the heights of heaven and gave him a name which is abo Phil 2: 9
that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, Phil 2: 10
and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2: 11
God figuratively laid aside His Majesty and Glory of the Spiritual world and took on the clothing or body of Jesus the man. Therefore, the Father as sender and the Son as sent are one and the same.
> And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do alway those things that please him. Jn.8:29
> Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. Jn.16:32
> Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Jn.14:9
The ONE LORD (Jehovah) is the only true GOD (Elohim). Our LORD (Jehovah- Saves) is the ONLY God: His name is not Father, Son and Spirit.
Full invisible Deity
Manifestations (personae)
Father
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jn.20:28
Son
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:23
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 1 John 2:24
Deny Father
Deny Jesus Christ
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9
Deny Son
The historical "trinity" denies that the God consists of separated beings all independant like a chummy committee or Family of Gods. Rubel Shelly and John York will not find in the ancient writings andy hint that God is cut up like a pecan pie. But, they say, each one is God. Does that mean THREE Pecan pies? No. These teachers are out on a limb and have sawn about through because this view came almost exclusively (in its Jubilated form) from Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly.The Restoration Movement leaders understood the history and repudiated the idea of polytheism. Three = One has never made sense. So, the Neo-Catholic view has to resort to "IT IS A MYSTERY." Well, God doesn't hide His nature. Throughout the Bible, God says of Himself Our God is One God.
Will clean up later: Kenneth Sublett
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