Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Baptism of the Holy Spirit gives US A new spirit made holy only at baptism.Peter said that when we are baptized in the "bath" sense we are REQUESTING a new, clear conscience or consiousness or co-perception. Paul says that He sprinkles our HEART. Therefore, baptism of the Holy Spirit is God in Christ washing our personal spirit by the washing of water by the Word.
E-MAIL: I see way too many assumptions for your ideas on tongues ceasing and never being beyond reach of the Apostles, this can easily be said of any doctrine of the Bible once the last writer penned any words it would be beyond reach of the Apostles, we need not repent for only they repented when the Apostles were around, we don't need baptism at all because it was only when the Apostles were around that one needed it.(Now mind you I don't believe this but this is what you have come to).
The reason because you do not believe the historical record beyond the Bible itself and I find that hard to swallow. I can then, make the same assumption of any doctrine after John died.
Sorry, I have just looked at a few statements and they are not yet organized. I will try to put this in Bible order. No one in an approved sense ever spoke in the gibberish in the modern sense. This was called mantic prophesying and directly corresponds to those Jesus condemned for crying 'Lord, Lord' and claiming miraculous powers. His response was to depart because "I never knew you." The history of gibberish in the ancient world is that it was a sign or MARK of those who could not make connection with God and were crying out of lostness. The other provable fact is that their cult leaders knew how to MANUFACTURE this mental breakdown and had the gall to peddle it as the "gods moving around in you."The command to repent and be baptized was to "go into all the world." The bestowal of God's grace depended upon people accepting His will for their lives. Therefore, if there is any forgiveness of sins we know of no other way but that which was commanded by Jesus, preached by Peter and the Apostles, and practiced by the early church.
There is no command to speak in tongues: it is a promise and it is a sign. By analogy, once the Constitution of the United States was affirmed by those who were willing to die for it, it never had to be ratified or affirmed again. In the same way, once speaking in tongues as a sign of the power of the apostles was demonstrated to all of the "kinds" of people who had some relationship with God the signs ceased.
Tongues have ceased because as a promise they were bound up with other supernatural signs which no one today can prove. Only tongues are widespread because we cannot prove that tongues are genuine and because ecstatic language is widespread even among pagans. Without being judgmental, I have to tell you that as Paul warned the Corinthians, if tongues are practiced in the assembly the watching world will see it as a sign of madness and not of spirituality.
Furthermore, tongues as a sign against the Jews or "signs to unbelievers" had a valid place in persuading both Jew and Gentile that the Jews were not God's unique people. Once the Incarnate God of the universe said it and proved it our faith depends upon our belief in what happened.
Since tongues are never seen as signs of super spirituality by the watching world, all of history agrees that the practice of a learned "language" may repudiate God as competent to speak in our own language.
My response is in black: Lactantius, noted that:
"But we have already spoken of spectacles: there remains one thing which is to be overcome by us, that we be not captivated by those things which do not penetrate to the innermost perception.
For all those things which are unconnected with words, that is, pleasant sounds of the air and of strings, may be easily disregarded, because they do not adhere to us, and cannot be written...
Is God, therefore, the contriver both of the mind, and of the voice, and of the tongues, unable to speak eloquently? Yea, rather, with the greatest foresight, He wished those things which are divine to be without adornment, that all might understand the things which He Himself spoke to all." (Lactantius, The Divine In-stitutes, Ante-Nicene Fathers, VII, p. 188).
"I made your ears that ye might hear the Scriptures; and ye prepared them for the songs of demons, and lyres, and jesting." (Appendix to Hippolytus, Ante-Nicene, V, p. 254).
Proverbs
When people refuse God's Word He sends strong delusions upon them. They play music, dance to make fools of themselves and speak in tongues and even speak it to god (1 Cor 14:2) which was probably Juno, the air god (1 Cor. 14:9):
She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying Pr 1:21
How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Proverbs 1:22
Scorn is similar to the word halal taken as authority for musical praise:
Luwc (h3887) loots; a prim root; prop. to make mouths at, i. e. to scoff; hence (from the effort to pronounce a foreign language) to interpret, or (gen.) intercede: - ambassador, have in derision, interpreter, make a mock, mocker, scorn (-er, -ful), teacher.
On the other hand, when people love God and obey Him He pours out His Spirit (mind) upon them which is to make them understand His Words. When we reject the Word we can be sure that God has rejected us and turned us over to worship our bodies.
How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Pr 1:22
Scorning is speaking in tongues or gibberish:
Luwc (h3887) loots; a prim root; prop. to make mouths at, i. e. to scoff; hence (from the effort to pronounce a foreign language) to interpret, or (gen.) intercede: - ambassador, have in deriion, interpreter, make a mock, mocker, scorn (-er, -ful), teacher.
Lacown (glaw-tsone'; from 3887; derision: - scornful (- ning).
Turn you at my reproof: behold,
I will pour out my spirit unto you,
I will make known my words unto you. Prov 1:23
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63
Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; Proverbs 1:24
Prophecy of Jesus
The Israelites lost their covenant relationship with God and were punished with the Law of Moses because they turned back to Egyptian bull worship to get their leadership from an idol. As a result, God warned that they were lost beyond redemption if they did not repent and He knew that they would not. Therefore, Moses prophesied of Messiah Who would be the unique spokesman for God. The danger of tongues is that too many claim to speak for God because they claim to be "spirit incarnated" along with Jesus. See our Blackaby notes.
The condition in Canaan was musical prophets from the Canaanite high places who "prophesied with instruments and danced." This was speaking in tongues and was the uncovered prophesying outlawed in 1 Corinthians 11:5 for the women. In the story of Wen Amun:
"Lastly, the way one of the noble youths became frenzied and prophesied, is quite parallel to the way in which Saul 'stripped off his clothes and prophesied... and lay down naked all that day and all that night' (1 Sam. 19:24). The heed which Zakar-Baal gave to this youth shows that at Gebal, as in Israel, such ecstatic or frenzied utterances were thought to be of divine origin. Later in Israel this sort of prophecy became a kind of profession, or trade. The members of these prophetic guilds were called "sons of the prophets.' The great literaty prophets of Israel had nothing to do with them. Amos is careful to say that he is not a 'son of a prophet' (Amos 7:14)." (Barton, George A., Archaeology and the Bible, p. 453, American Sunday-school Union).
"We know that Canaanite prophets were organized in guilds centered on the larger sanctuaries, as, for example, 'the prophets of Baal four hundred and fifty, and the prophets of the Asherah four hundred,' with whom Elijah had memorable dealings on Mount Carmel (1 Kings 18). Similarly,
Israelite cultic prophets were to be found in and around the sanctuaries, roving about in rowdy troops, working themselves up into frenzies by dancing and music, and uttering semi-coherent oracles (speaking in tongues or sermons?) which the credulous accepted as divinely inspired." (Heaton, E. W., Everyday Life in the Old Testament, p. 221, Scribners)
Glossolalie and its interpretation are mentionned in the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 18:10) as part of pagan religious practices (deu 18:9). The words used in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament are:
- "mantevomenos" (manteuomenoV): "he who practices glossolalia" (unfortunately translated by "he who practices divination"in the French translation by Louis Segond);
- "mantian klidonizomenos" (manteian klhdonizomenoV): "he who interprets glossolalia (unfortunately translated by "he who looks for omens" by L. Segond).
Moses warned that:
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Deuteronomy 18:10
Divination is from the Hebrew
Nachash (h5172) naw-khash'; a prim. root; prop. to hiss, i. e. whisper a (magic) spell; gen. to prognosticate: - * certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) * enchantment, learn by experience, * indeed, diligently observe.
The Egyptian cobra had a huge, flared red throat and it was believed that the bronze wind instruments imitated the sound of the serpent and therefore charmed it:
Nachash (h5175) naw-khawsh'; from 5172; a snake (from its hiss): - serpent.
Nachuwsh (h5153) naw-khoosh'; appar. pass. part. of 5172 (perh. in the sense of ringing, i. e. bell-metal; or from the red color of the throat of a serpent [5175, as denom.] when hissing); coppery, i. e. (fig.) hard: - of brass.
"Lucian tells us that spectres fled at the sound of bronze and iron, and he contrasts the repulsion which the clank of these metals exerted on spirits with the attraction which the clink of silver money wielded over women of a certain class." (Frazer, James George, Folk-Lore in the Old Testament, p. 41, Macmillian, 1923)
"From the Minoan period till the end of antiquity, a space of some two thousand years, most art works portraying sacrifices depict instrumentalists, and literary works make frequent mention of them as an essential part of the ritual. In early Rome the flute alone was used, but later on Greek influence brought in the lyre, so that Romans had to arrange priestly companies of flute-players and lyre-players to provide the necessary music. Quasten argues that the instruments originally had a magic function--to summon the god or the soul of the dead, or ward off evil spirits, or prevent ill-omened sounds from reaching the ears of the priest." (Green, William, Abstract of McKinnon, p. 32).
The "instrument of the Witch of Endor" was an old wine or water skin. She mumbled into the instrument and pretended that her music or speaking in tongues was the voice of the dead.
Hebrew 'obh "the idea of prattling a father's name; prop. A mumble, i.e. a water skin (from the hollow sound): hence a necromancer
The Resounding gongs which Paul equated to speaking in tongues in Corinth.
Greek chalkos "the idea of hollowing out as a vessel (this metal being chiefly used for that purpose); from 5465 chalao to lower as into a void: let down, strike. From 5400 a frightening thing, i.e. terrific portent: fearful sight."Moses continued:
For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. Deuteronomy 18:14Anan (h6049) aw-nan'; a prim. root; to cover; used only as denom. from 6051, to cloud over; fig. to act covertly, i. e. practise magic: - * bring, enchanter, Meonemin (responsive singers), observe (-r of) times, soothsayer, sorcerer.
Anah (h6031) aw-naw'; a prim. root [possibly rather ident. with 6030 through the idea of looking down or browbeating]; to depress lit. or fig., trans. or intrans. (in various applications, as follow): - abase self, afflict (-ion, self), answer [by mistake for 6030], chasten self, deal hardly with, defile, exercise, force, gentleness, humble (self), hurt, ravish, sing [by mistake for 6030], speak [by mistake for 6030], submit self, weaken, * in any wise.
Anah (g6030) aw-naw'; a prim. root; prop. to eye or (gen.) to heed, i. e. pay attention; by impl. to respond; by extens. to begin to speak; spec. to sing, shout, testify, announce: - give account, afflict [by mistake for 6030], (cause to, give) answer, bring low [by mistake for 6030], cry, hear, Leannoth, lift up, say, * scholar, (give a) shout, sing (together by course), speak, testify, utter, (bear) witness. See also 1042, 1043.
Save me from the lions mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns. Ps.22:21
The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; Deuteronomy 18:15
According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. Deuteronomy 18:16
And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. Deuteronomy 18:17
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Deuteronomy 18:18
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deuteronomy 18:19
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. Deuteronomy 18:20
And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? Deuteronomy 18:21
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Deuteronomy 18:22
According to an early writer, in time, God would raise up a new priest and the focus would be redirected from rituals and celebrations to a life of righteousness and justice.
Then shall the Lord raise up a new priest. And to him
all the words of the Lord shall be revealed;
and he shall execute a righteous judgment upon the earth for a multitude of days.
And his star shall arise in heaven as of a king. Testament of Levi 5:13-15
When Joel prophesied that God's Spirit would be poured upon all flesh it was clearly in the sense that certain people would perform the sign that Messiah had come with truth as well as with judgment. After that, Joel prophesied that the method would be for each generation to teach the gospel to the next and so on until the return.
This spirit of wisdom and knowledge would be poured out and the spirit of disorder and destruction would be judged by supernatural signs. The result of this new order would be that a spirit of understanding would lead to sanctification.
And the knowledge of the Lord shall be poured forth upon the earth,
as the water of the seas.
The heavens shall be opened, and
from the temple of glory shall come upon him sanctification,
with the Father's voice as from Abraham to Isaac.
And the glory of the Most High shall be uttered over him and
the spirit of understanding and sanctification
shall rest upon him in the water. Testament of Levi 5:19,-22
This was the same "Spirit" poured out on the Apostles and upon Cornelius purely as a sign.
The command of Jesus was to "go, preach, baptize"; the result was to be the remission of sins; the supernatural signs following were not performed by the baptized believers but the apostles when they became believers and went out preaching. Those not apostles went out preaching and baptizing because the Great Commission was "into all the world" for you, your children and those far away in space in time. However, the did not perform miracles because they were not Apostles and therefore did not need verification of their once-for-all-time work. The miracles of the first century Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists and Pastor-Teachers could be confirmed even by the enemies of Christ. No one can confirm the miracle of healing or speaking a foreign language today. However, after almost two thousand years we still baptize believers and leave the salvation or "baptism" into Christ to Him.
This was not unlike the miracles of Moses as the Law was delivered just once. Later people who imitated the musical prophesying or any other "miracle" gained their authority from the "prophets from the Philistine high places" and not from God.
I confess. I believe that Christ, the Spirit, was competent to deliver what He wanted us to know about His "God in the flesh" contact so that we can reject the rituals and ritualizers and have a spiritual (spirit to Spirit or mind to Mind) relationship with him. An "in the flesh" relationship demanded by speaking in tongues may reject God's "living by faith and not by sight" principle.
I believe that when we turn to the Lord and away from "body religion," He opens our eyes and unplugs our ears and removes the veil so that we can enter the Most Holy Place of His Mind or Spirit. Only two at a time are allowed in the Most Holy Place - The Incarnate God of the Universe with His Glory restored and the individual priest - you and I
I do not believe in any modern revelations. I am occasionally called an apostle or prophet or demon possessed. But to keep from blaspheming, I demand that my insight does not come from personal inspiration but perspiration and demons won't let you uphold Christ as full Deity.
Jesus didn't have to be crucified for me now because He was crucified for me almost two thousand years ago. How do I know? "The Bible tells me so!"
I see the Apostles much like signers of the Constitution: once the Constitution was validated and put into effect it does not have to be ratified in every generation. I can never return and get my signature on that great document. And wouldn't it be presumptious of me to claim wisdom superior to Jefferson?
These signers were eyewitnesses to the process which gave us our government. It would be silly to call in someone from Mexico to sign. The signers also put their lives on the line because people will kill you for trying to show them the "freedom road." In the same way, God inspired His Word only through people who had a personal encounter with Him: He picked them out, spoke to them and breathed His Spirit or Mind into them through Words and guided them into all truth. Saul was picked out and had a personal visitation from Jesus the Spirit Who promised memory of what he had been told and personal encounters when he needed answers for a given situation. This "Spirit" presence of the Lord called Himself "Jesus."
If you haven't had this personal visitation then you have only Christ's already-revealed message and that should be enough for spiritual people.
Now, after the Words of Christ have been delivered (Jude 9), only those who "fill up" with His Words (Colossians 3:16) or with His Spirit (Ephesians 5:19) to the point of overflowing, have anything worth saying to the world. And if you claim that Jesus appeared to you then I cannot trust anything you say or do. I am disturbed that "new revelation" seems needed when we are not happy with the "old revelation." Personal righteousness and social justice are not time bound; they mean the same thing even in this "enlightened" 20th century.
Isn't it possible that you may deny Christ by denying that He had the power to "pour out" His Mind (Spirit or Word in John 6:63) to us "once for all" and then had especially equipped, eye-witness Apostles deliver that Word so that we can read it without a priestly preacher, singer or tongue speaker mediator imposing their body between us and God? The Spirit Christ could refresh the memory only of one who had the message already in the recesses of the mind. In the same way only by our filling up with His Word does He have any raw materials with which to work.
First Peter
The gift OF a holy spirit is the "clear conscience' or CO-perception which Peter said that we REQUEST at baptism (1 Peter 3:21).
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 john 5:7
Father
God or Deity is ONE
Word
Spirit
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 1 Jn 5:8
Spirit
Witnesses AGREE
Blood
Water
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 1 Jn 5:9He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:
he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 1 Jn 5:10
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 Jn 5:11
Martureo (g3140) mar-too-reh'-o; from 3144; to be a witness, i.e. testify (lit. or fig.): - charge, give [evidence], bear record, have (obtain, of) good (honest) report, be well reported of, testify, give (have) testimony, (be, bear, give, obtain) witness.
THE elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 1Pe.5:1
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1Pe. 5:8
Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 1Pe. 5:9
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. 1Pe. 5:10
Kaleo (g2564) kal-eh'-o; akin to the base of 2753; to "call" (prop. aloud, but used in a variety of applications, dir. or otherwise): - bid, call (forth), (whose, whose sur) name (was [called]).
To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1Pe. 5:11
The gift OF a holy spirit is the "clear conscience' or CO-perception which Peter said that we REQUEST at baptism (1 Peter 3:21).
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 john 5:7
Father
God or Deity is ONE
Word
Spirit
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 1 Jn 5:8
Spirit
Witnesses AGREE
Blood
Water
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 1 Jn 5:9He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:
he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 1 Jn 5:10
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 1 Jn 5:11
Martureo (g3140) mar-too-reh'-o; from 3144; to be a witness, i.e. testify (lit. or fig.): - charge, give [evidence], bear record, have (obtain, of) good (honest) report, be well reported of, testify, give (have) testimony, (be, bear, give, obtain) witness.
THE elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 1Pe.5:1
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1Pe. 5:8
Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 1Pe. 5:9
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. 1Pe. 5:10
Kaleo (g2564) kal-eh'-o; akin to the base of 2753; to "call" (prop. aloud, but used in a variety of applications, dir. or otherwise): - bid, call (forth), (whose, whose sur) name (was [called]).
To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1Pe. 5:11
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 1 Jn 5:18
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 1 Jn 5:19
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 1 Jn. 5:20
We are IN Christ when we are baptized into christ:
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:26
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Gal 3:27
Know is:
Dianoia (g1271) dee-an'-oy-ah; from 1223 and 3563; deep thought, prop. the faculty (mind or its disposition), by impl. its exercise: - imagination, mind, understanding.
Spirit is:
Pneuma (g4151) pnyoo'-mah; from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by anal. or fig. a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by impl.) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, doemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Comp. 5590.
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Ro.8:27
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; Ep.4:23
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; Ph.1:27
Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. Romans 15:2
For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. Romans 15:3
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope Romans 15:4
Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: Romans 15:5
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 15:6
The next level of believers had another form of memory refresment. Therefore, Peter said:
I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 2 Peter 1:13
because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 2 Peter 1:14
And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things. 2 Peter 1:15
Why do you suppose that Peter who obeyed the Great Commission and in whose presence just a few people spoke in tongues as a sign, did not write that we should "seek" the infilling of the literal Holy Spirit "person" so that He could guide us into any truth we need for our "times?" Well, he knew that he was one of the unique Apostles personally selected for their non-scholarly contamination and filled with His Spirit which was and is His Word. Peter understood the once-for-all visitation of the Personal God:
We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:16 (If you ain't then you can't)
For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." 2 Peter 1:17 (The Father is the Majesty God laid aside on the "throne" to become Son or a man. He sat down again beside this same Majesty to become pure Spirit. His name to us is still Jesus.)
We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. 2 Peter 1:18
And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.2 Peter 1:19
Did you get that? Peter said that the way for Jesus to live in the heart is to give heed (a worship word) to the words of the prophets (old and new Testament) which contained "the Spirit of Christ" (1 Peter 1:11).
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20
For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:21
- BUT there were false prophets also among the people,
- even as there shall be false teachers among you,
- who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
- even denying the Lord that bought them, and
- bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:1
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way (well-defined highway) of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2 Peter 2:2
If people are still tongue speakers delivering prophecy and doctrine how can I trust you? You are not Jesus and you are not an Apostle. And if you tell me that you are I will just have to believe that you are looking for power or money.
This was the same Lord Jesus Christ upon whom the spirits of knowledge would be poured:
trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 2 Peter 1:11
Luke recorded Peter's words about baptism and I don't need a fresh revelation to understand what He did under inspiration. Because miracles propelled the Word out into all the world I don't need the physical presence of the Lord.
The promise was that Messiah would fill us with SPIRIT when He filled us with His Words which are spirit and life (john 6:63)
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord. Isa 59:20
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord;
My spirit that is upon thee, and
my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
Paul, who said that Christ appeared to him, gave instructions for the following, non-inspired, non-eyewitnesses:
THEREFORE we ought (to be under obligation) to give the more earnest heed (a worship-like word) to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. Hebrews 2:1
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; Hebrews 2:2
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which
at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Hebrews 2:3
God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? Hebrews 2:4
Now as a tongue speaker, mediating preacher, worship leader or whatever you have been warned by the Spirit of Christ Himself in clearly-written words that God poured out His Word (Spirit) under His direct guidance so that we can know that you are a false prophet.
Christ, as full Deity (Col 2:9), had the power to "bottle-up' the Water of the Word and Paul demanded (yes, demanded) that our singing be repeating the Words of Christ (Spirit) as a way to give heed, remember or worship God by honoring what He spoke.
If our songs and sermons are self-composed we are claiming inspiration superior to that of the eyewitnesses or even of God Himself. We are, poor creatures, just speaking in unknown tongues and we wil receive the just recompence of reward.
The miracles were not part of the salvation process. Peter said that after salvation the gift of the Holy Spirit would follow believers or be given to them. These miracles were to bear witness that what the Apostles spoke was directly from God.
Now, if you claim to perform miracles, you also claim to have had a personal visitation from Christ Who taught you some new inspired truth not given to the eye-witnesses. If that is the case, then you will obey Paul to the Corinthians in chapter 14 and bring along another eye-witness to verify that the new revelation is from God. Then, you will deliver this new inspiration to the world for their verification. Then you will deliver it "in church" in the language of the crowd or you are contemptious of your revelation. If you are tested and found to be a false prophet then you should report Monday morning to the nearest electric chair.
"will he speak to this people" not a few, mind you but 'this people', Joel mentions this to all 'people' ... I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh;and your daughters, old men, young men, servants, handmaids would have this Spirit poured out nowhere was Tongues even mentioned as a sign yet that was the sign and fulfillment of Isa. in Acts 2:1-4 and other passages in Acts. The synonymous terms pour, fill, fell, came, recieved, baptized, gift, filled were all used for this miraculous event.Please read Acts again for the passages.
In my article I noted that Joel has two instructions: first, instruction in the Word is to continue from generation to generation and on until today. Second, the signs of Joel two were only promised to two generations. In Peter's application the fulfillment of signs was to be fulfilled in two generations. It was limited to the call of God and not to mankind's choice.
If you will read Joel carefully the "day of the Lord" would come as a baptism of fire to burn up the chaff and refine the silver and gold. The Spirit of God would be poured out as a once-for-all-times event. The dreams, visions and prophesying were signs to prove that "this is that spoken by Joel." Many of these words are closely related to Chaldean "dreaming" but we have not a single word of what any of these people said.
A sign is not the true thing but a "parable" of the true thing. Peter did not treat any of these things as describing, say, baptism but of being a sign. The tongues to Ananias were signs to the apostles and other Jews that God had poured out this Spirit on all flesh. It can rain on all of my garden but not all of the plants produce fruit. Supernatural outpourings of both good and evil was the sign but Peter did not say that baptism or repentance were signs.
Notice that the Spirit poured out was not a "little man" or a charismatic spirit which produced ecstasy -- except among unbelievers.
AND there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: Isaiah 11:1
And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; Isaiah 11:2
And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: Isaiah 11:3
Paul clearly understood this prophecy as he repudiated Corinth's ecstatic speech (not true speech). He would like it if all could speak in an intelligible language or interpret it but even then he demanded:
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 1 Corinthians 14:6
The Spirit of God is the Mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2) and if we have supernatural power to speak in tongues it will come out as a Divine Revelation in whatever language is needed.
You make the mistake and say Phillip did not have the ability to lay hands and' people' speak in tongues as the Spirit (not Men) gives the utterance, this may or not been true??? beyond this one episode since Acts 8:39 does not go into detail of the Eunuchs Spirtual experience (and it was not needed in every passage to do so), especially since a greater miracle of Phillip being translated caught up some twenty miles away at Azotus. Your error is not as much about Phillip and his deficiency since neither of us can prove if he ever had this ability later or not (I would tend to believe he could as well). But a Man named Ananias make your whole idea come tumbling down that "only apostolic authority" and them laying hands . I will not argue with one who has to see tongues mentioned in every instance of one being filled with the Holy Ghost or any other synonymous terms mentioned , suffice it to say that Paul had the same experience as the other Apostles and did Speak in tongues.Acts
First, Scripture does go into detail about the Eunuch's rejoicing. The word "rejoicing" means:
Chairo (g5463) khah'ee-ro; a prim. verb; to be "cheer"ful, i.e. calmly happy or well-off; impers. espec. as salutation (on meeting or parting), be well: - farewell, be glad, God speed, greeting, hail, joy (-fully), rejoice.
Some other examples are:
And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Matthew 18:13
And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. Acts 5:41
Can we conclude that being calmly happy and having that well-off feeling of confidence that you have obeyed the message poured out by the Spirit of Christ (1 Peter 1:11) does not include speaking in tongues?
Philip did not take himself out of view and I don't know about being transported. This was the miracle of the Spirit of the Lord which is the Lord Himself in Spirit form. This was Jesus as pure or Holy Spirit. Do you have the power to fly away by the Spirit? No, of course not. Therefore, it is easy to see that this was an event between Jesus and Philip and is not a "pattern" for us.
Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fishers coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea. John 21:7
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Corinthians 3:17
So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me. Hebrews 13:6
Second, I can know about Philip only what I am told. Because God sent another person to deliver a message to him we might guess that neither he nor his daughters ever prophesied. We do not have any record that they did so. Therefore, while we cannot prove a negative we cannot dare use our it might have beens to defend a modern ritual.
Third, did I miss something connecting the hands of Ananias and Paul speaking in tongues? Acts 9:17 doesn't mention tongues but being filled with the Holy Ghost which is the Mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2) or the Spiritual presence of Christ in helping him evangelize. Paul did speak in tongues or languages because he was an apostle (no located apostles) sent to preach in many nations. His use of "five words intelligently spoken versus ten thousand words in tongues" where everyone knows the language is assigning 0 value in the church assembly to infinite value of speaking the already-revealed words which he taught. Corinth was not involved in speaking languages but of ecstatic speech learned from their pagan temples because he never really said that any Corinthian had even the slightest gift even of resolving a conflict or correcting sin. Chapter 12 describing true gifts is to shame them and not to prove that they had the gifts.
2:39 goes beyond one generation with this Gift of the H.G. "PROMISE IS UNTO YOU (1ST GENERATION) AND TO YOUR CHILDREN(2ND) AND TO "ALL" (PEOPLE INCLUDING WOMEN) THAT ARE AFAR OFF(3RD AND SUCCEEDING GENERATIONS ) EVEN AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL." Its to late to tell me that I can't have this gift , God poured it out on me when he filled me with it as it fell when I recieved it when it came I was Baptized with his Spirit by Promise. I will not cast my pearls to the swine and explain the way in which saved me that nite, but it was marvelous.
The Spirit of Christ has as His major effort to tell people how to be saved. Whatever your experience, (and I won't judge that) there is not a hint in the whole Bible that people were saved by speaking something which no one understood. Paul said that to speak, say "Japanese" to an English-speaking congregation would make one a barbarian. That is, speaking what sounds like disconnected monosyllables such as "bar, bar" or "ab, ab" which is to say Lord, Lord but not doing what Jesus told them to do.
It is interesting that the Demoniac was performing some of the exercises described in modern demon possession or religious "revivals." Jesus cast the demons (spirits of some disposition) out of the man and chased them into a herd of swine. Now, since I have never had one of those "better felt than told" experiences I am pretty confident that I am not a swine. (I do love country ham.)
Note above.
Makran (g3112) mak-ran'; fem. acc. sing. of 3117 (3598 being implied); at a distance (lit. or fig.): - (a-) far (off), good (great) way off
This has nothing to do with following generations. Rather, those far off or far away were Gentiles:
And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles. Acts 22:21
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Epesians 2:12
But now, in Christ Jesus, ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Epesians 2:13
And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Epesians 2:17
I don't presume to judge personal experiences except to say that these things happened to American Indians, South Sea Islanders, Chinese and many, many others. I strongly urge you to look at my Awakening Index:
I would assume you make the error like most that tongues cease with prophecy and knowledge when that which is perfect is come!? Yet prophesy is seen in Rev.11:3 ending that error as well (I have not read through all you have as there is enough error to disuade me from it all).
It is clear that these signs would cease at some time while true attitudinal gifts continued. Paul specificially warned the Corinthians that these were sign gifts and not utilitarian gifts to all people: "Do all speak in tongues? No." The clear implication that they would cease in the lifetime of those who trusted their experience more than they trusted the Lord. And history records that these signs ceased -- although some claimed to be apostles because everyone knew that an evangelist could not get a "berth on good ship discipleship." Because they claimed to be apostles with these powers, the writings of the time demanded that if they remained more than two or three days they were false apostles or prophets. If he wanted to tarry they were obligated to find him a job.
When I am convinced that you are one of God's two witnesses, standing in the temple and prophesying for 1260 days and wearing sackcloth (burlap) I might believe that you are a prophet:
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. Revelation 11:3
I found more problems with your doctrine in other areas like Mk 16:16-17 where you again say only Apostles had these sign abilitys, yet the scripture says "And these signs shall follow them that "BELIEVE" not that are Apostles, Wrong again with the word.
The power to "sniff out" rattle snakes or copperheads follows me whereever I go on the farm. Do I have the ability to sniff out dangerous snakes? No. Annie, my beagle, follows me and runs ahead and sends out just the right kind of "known tongues" to alert me. If she spoke Russian and said: "Rattle snake, coiled on your left ten feet ahead, I would be dead."
Because the Spirit Christ is at least as smart as we, if everyone who believed was to speak in tounges couldn't He have said:
"Everyone who believes and is baptized shall speak in tongues."
Speaking in tongues as a sign followed only those who believed in the presence of an apostle!
I continued, and I hope that you will prayerfully read on, to explain that the prophesied signs such as "snake encounters" were performed only by apostles and tongue speaking was confined to the presence of an Apostle -- and that is a fact if inspired Scripture is our source of facts.
Friend I wonder why you folks just don't black out or cut out the scriptures or print up your own Bibles like the Jehovah Witness's do when you don't believe in the Word of God in scripture; you don't believe in One God, Holy Ghost Baptism, Gifts of the Spirit, Holiness, Music (Yeah in heaven all you would have is Old Test. Musicians), Miracles,an who knows what else, take those scriptures out and you might only be left with "Jesus Wept" and a handful of others.
All of the evidence I can find on "exercises" such as speaking in tongues, pretending to be a dog treeing another believer, seems to show that people black out the Word and everything else. The same supernatural signs to prove that the Apostles were from God will naturally be imitated as counterfeits by those who want you to listen to them rather than to the inspired Word.
I love to study the sacrificial system imposed upon Israel as a punishment for their musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. I discover that David's instruments were added to God's trumpets to force the people to fall on their face during the animal-burning process. At the same time, you will have to get up early on Piney creek to find me making an animal sacrifice after Lord Jesus Christ has fulfilled all of the signs.
You will find that while I, agreeing with the Church Fathers, believe in a trinitarian nature of God as I am a trinitarian being created in His image, I believe in one God and shudder at those who would cut him up like a pecan pie. I believe that Holiness is being "set apart for God's service" but I do not, like some poor people, refuse to take the Lord's Supper because I (really did) commit a sin last week. Holiness is only in association with a Holy God hiding us from wrath: it is not sinless perfection. If we say that we have no sin we are already the worst of sinners: liars.
Revelation may picture harps in heaven but on earth the picture is of teaching the Words of Jesus. If God wants me to play a harp in heaven he will have to know that I am not a virgin before we get started.
Enough of this I have seen all this before, have attended debates,been in them,have them in book form, on audio and video tapes, I shall never believe in the false trinity, or in those doctrines that take away from the Word (all of it).
IN JESUS NAME, BOB
Please don't take the phrases "Judas went out and hanged himself" and "go thou and do likewise" out of time context. Well, just being funny. I know that you know that a lot of events were recorded "for our learning" but not "for our imitataion." I really never plan to build an ark or walk on water.
Thanks,
Ken Sublett
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